Hitting the leg, as was previously explained, not likely. Cops are trained NOT to try to hit the leg, because it’s a small target.
Now a quiz: what is the range of a taser? What is the range of a handgun? What is the range of a “bean-bag bullet thing”? Based on the answers to the above, why were each of those non-lethal alternatives unusable in the Diallo case?
The kid was in a car. Last time I checked, taser darts and beanbags don’t penetrate metal or glass very well, if at all.
OK then, next time your house gets robbed, call a crackhead. :rolleyes:
Pink No offense meant here, but you clearly haven’t the slightest idea about the realities of armed confrontation, close-quarter battle, and the physiology thereto related. This less-lethal notion is great in theory, but not always in practice.
Since when do tasers not work, you ask? Why, a shift Sgt in my very own department not one month ago was confronted with a subject who was unarmed, intoxicated, and became agitated. He was tasered. It had zero effect on the subject who was subdued only after fighting with seven, count 'em SEVEN police officers, and placing the Sgt. on short term injury leave. Further proof that less-lethal is not always the perfect solution.
minirant
A little bit from the article…
This kind of rhetoric is meaningless, and serves only to inflame the public and put money into the coffers of the church. Pisses me right off, these liars and charlatans.
/minirant
I was referring to the kid they shot 41 TIMES who was reaching for his wallet.
I have a question then: when a cop pulls you over for speeding (or whatever the offence might be), when you’r reaching for your wallet or registration, is it okay for her/him to shoot you 41 times because they didn’t know if you were getting a gun or not?
Bricker, I admit I don’t know personally, are you a cop? How do you know personally? I would find this very hypocritical that you would make such comments as yours if you have not had police training yourself, but I will stand corrected if you have gone through full police academy.
buttonjockey308, so you think that the Seargant you described should have loaded that guy up with say . . . 41 bullets? Did this Seargant lose his life due to the incident? Why would KILLING the man be a better solution than a cop getting injured at work?
How 'bout this, why don’t the cops just sit in their cars on the side of the road and shoot jay-walkers? Just shoot the people you pull over for having a light out, or going 10 miles over the speed limit. I realize that cops take their lives into their own hands, but they KNOW this and many times wear body armor.
I think it was excessive action on both accounts, I didn’t realize I’d get a pile-on here for agreeing with the OP.
Actually Bricker the “bean-bag bullet thing” would have worked in the Diallo case, but it’s a logistical impracticality to equip every police car in the City of New York with two shotguns (one for lethal and one for less-lethal ammunition) because the consequences could be dire indeed if the wrong one was used.
I was a public defender. In that capacity, I was often called upon to cross-examine police officers during a criminal trial about their actions, and whether their actions were in conformity with their department’s rules. In order to do that successfully, I had to become familiar with those rules and the training that officers receive.
This is how I know, personally.
I value your opinion here because you’re obviously a cop or work for the police, why is it okay to just kill people without knowing what they were doing? The kid in the car . . . that seems to have too much gray area so I am specifically referring to the young man with the wallet.
Where is this going to lead eventually? Should we as “civilians” be scared to not follow every single law to the T for fear we will be killed? The guy was obviously shaken up and might have not heard or understood what they were asking. I really think killing him was not the way to go, let alone the fact they filled him with 41 bullets.
What, if anything, can be done to make sure a cop on a power-trip or who’s racist won’t use excessive force? Do you really think it was right what they did?
Yeah, that’s kinda the point.
I can take care of my own security, thank you very much. I don’t need some government thug with a god complex and an itchy finger to do it for me.
Then I stand corrected.
I still think killing people for not knowing what they are doing is excessive.
Like I said Marabou you are out of your element here. You clearly have no grasp of the real situational issues. You can post your misguided opinions until you are blue in the face, but that does NOT change the reality.
As far as your ludicrous statement about the Sgt. No. As stated earlier, CLEARLY NOT…
It’s false and inflammatory rhetoric like yours that keeps the real problems from being adressed. You want to focus on the symptom, without addressing the disease. Please, for what is left of your own dignity, shut up.
I disagree.
Diallo was hit only 19 times, although 41 shots were fired. He was in a vestibule that did not give a clear line of fire to the officers. A bean-bag shotgun would have faced the same problem: deflection by the vestibule walls that were providing cover to Diallo.
This was not a barricade situation. The officers persued Diallo, on foot, towards the building. If it’s a logisitcal impossibility to equip CARS with two shotguns, how would you equip officers on foot with two shotguns?
A jury heard complete testimony, and acquitted all four officers of criminal wrongdoing in the Diallo shooting.
Bricker and buttonjockey, although I’ve not gone through any sort of academy training AT ALL, I absolutely believe you both to be right.
And I can only hope ybeayf never needs any help. I’m not mean enough to wish that he does need help and doesn’t get it. God help me, I’ve got to wonder what exactly has happened TO YOU to give you such a sour view of the police. They have a hard job to do, and they’re only human, but they are all that is standing between most of us and those who think the law is for other people. It’s all very well for you to claim you can handle your own security, but if you are ever the victim of a crime, what do you plan to do, go vigilante?
Gotta go with Bricker on this one. I have worked as an auxiliary sheriff in my town for 3 years now, and until you have been on the other “side” you dont how hard it is to make those types of decisions. Things only look clear afterwards, during a situation like that everything is moving so fast its insane sometimes.
I dont fault the cop at all for shooting that kid, not only did he protect himself, but he was protecting any innocent civilians that might have been hurt. Is it sad the kid died? Hell yea, but might as well blame his parents as the cops. What was he doing at 4am in the morning driving a car at 13?
And a big f-u to the Reverend who suggested “shine a light”, what a dumbass
.
It’s an unfortunate tragedy, I agree. But did the cops act illegally, or negligently?
No.
The front two officers both testified that Diallo was reaching for something in his pocket with one hand while trying to open the door to the building with the other, despite commands that he halt, freeze, and show police his hands.
The testified that Diallo began to turn around, still pulling at the object in his pocket. One officer then called out, “Gun!”
That officer, Sean Carroll, said that as the individual pulled out an object in his pocket, his prior experience, his training, told him that he was pulling out a gun. Believing that Diallo was about to fire his weapon at the police, Carroll fired first.
Now, the object turned out to be a wallet.
That makes this a terrible accident. It does not make the police conduct either criminal or reckless.
Like I said Marabou you are out of your element here. You clearly have no grasp of the real situational issues. You can post your misguided opinions until you are blue in the face, but that does NOT change the reality.
As far as your ludicrous statement about the Sgt. No. As stated earlier, CLEARLY NOT…
That’s great for you. Tough luck for the folks who can’t provide their own security huh?
Again, I hope there’s a hell, because that’s where those dirty cops will go and hopefully burn in a most painful way for all eternity.
Plenty of people disagree with the ruling in the Diallo case, plenty. And officers get off on this kind of shit all the time.
It’s a tragedy and could have been prevented with a tiny bit of communication with the man. If you don’t have the time or the care to read the case, that’s fine, but I can’t sit here and say nothing while you defend 41 shots to an innocent, unarmed man.
Wyclef Jean wrote a very sad song called “Diallo” that pretty much sums up the story. If you are so inclined, here are the lyrics: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/w/wyclef-jean/147509.html
I’ve had nothing but bad experiences with cops, and funny, I’ve never even come close to committing a crime. I had them break down my fucking door because someone reported gunshots. No gunshots, no signs of anything wrong in my home at 6 a.m., and still they stood there and held ME at gunpoint. Four of them held me at gunpoint while my daughter was waking in her room. God help us if she had walked out into the hallway at that moment. It was obvious that I wasn’t armed, because I was in pajamas. And I did what they said, but they steadied those guns on me, at my head, for a good 30 sec. So fuck them!!!
My favorite part was when they were leaving and the one pigfucker says, “Yeah, her boyfriend was prolly there or something.” Uh, yeah, dumbfuck. God, that makes me so mad. They didn’t apologize to me for terrorizing us, they went along like they did the right thing. No, “sorry Miss, we must have gotten the wrong place.” Nothing.
So yeah, let them burn.
Why don’t you request that this thread be closed since us non-police officers aren’t allowed an opinion on the matter. I was trying to be respectful of your opinions, but your language is on the edge of insulting and I have no patience for that.
41 shots is excessive, they shot to kill. Here in my town, they have something to effect of “shoot to hurt, not kill” to slow someone down. I don’t think that would have been out of the question, obviously for trigger-happy cops, it is.
I’ve read the trial transcripts. I would argue that they are a bit more probative than the lyrics of a song.
The jury heard, and credited, the testimony of the officers. What, SPECIFICALLY, do you contend is inherently incredible about their version of events?