I've seen Gandalf in a frock! Do other countries have pantomimes?

Last night I had the rather surreal experience of watching Sir Ian McKellen dressed in a skin-tight Abba style disco suit and golden platform boots (not to mention a wig and a paair of bristols that could sink a battleshup), also a dress, housecoat, kylie style frock and a variety of other frocks etc. He was very good.

No this wasn’t a private party - but a pantomime at the Old Vic theatre. (A picture is here:)

http://www.oldvictheatre.com/index2.htm

This got me thinking - are pantos purely a British thing or do they have them else where?

P.S BEHIND YOU!!

I think the only exposure most Americans have had to British pantomime is through Monty Python: “Pantomime Horse” and “Pantomime Princess Margaret”. Oh, and when Puss-in-Boots shows up at the end of that one sketch about the shipwreck.

Sounds like fun, though.

What, you mean other than drag queens?

The only similar thing I’ve seen is the annual Hasty Puddy Club show at Harvard:

http://www.hastypudding.org/new/

The *New York Times[i/] did a short interview on Sir Ian’s turn a few weeks ago. He seems to be having a very good time.

He’s quite clearly having the time of his life - he take the piss out of the Gandalf thing something rotten too. (Alladin revolves around a magic ring too).

I knew americans wouldn’t have pantomimes. (On a list of things that no american would ever understand panto must come in the top ten. Imagine trying to explain it to them!). I was just wondering if places like Ireland and Australia had them.

Ireland definately does. I would imagine however that they’re not terrifically popular (haven’t seen one advertised in ages).

I saw a panto Sleeping Beauty a few weeks ago, and I’m in the US. It was specifically called “a comic panto in the British style,” though, so.

Not really our sort of thing. I think they exist here, but your average Aussie would understand that it was a bizarre foreign cultural artifact.

As one of the few American Dopers, I’d like to know what a panto is. I know you said Americans wouldn’t understand, but I’d like to give it a shot.

Things like this are part of the reason we asked you people to leave.

So, owlstretchingtime, are you not English? Why are you surprised by something that I assume is old news in Merrie Olde England?

:smiley:

It’s not quite usual to have stars of McKellen’s merit in a panto. Or not from the point-of-view of anyone who lives outside London. Generally pantos recruit from… well, less auspicious realms.

Blimey. where to start!

Pantos are usually a version of a fairy tale like alladin or cinderella. However they have certain traditional elements which diferentiate them from the normal theatre.

Firstly there is the principal boy. This is a girl in boys togs.

Then there is the dame - this is a man in old ladies clothes (Sir Ian McKellen in this instance)

The show is very interactive with well-known call and response phrases such as “oh no it isn’t” and “behind you” at the appropriate time (we know when these are).

The twist with this production is that the “stars” are usually pretty low rent - faded soap stars and occasionally sportsmen (Frank Bruno the Heavyweight champ used to have a thriving career in panto). Sir Ian McKellen is obviously doing this for love as he hardly needs the money.

Sir Elton John wrote a song for this production too and Mr (not sir) Kevin Spacey is the artistic director - these are not the names one usually associates with pantos (although Sir Elton is visibly turning into a panto dame by the hour).

These pantos are phenomenally popular and provide the financial life-blood for many regional theatres and companies.

If you’ve seen any of Steve Coogan’s Alan Partridge character you’ll have some idea of the kind of faux-famous persons usually starring in such shows. if one had harboured hopes of being on television forever, doing panto might seem something of a career graveyard - but it’s a surprisingly well-paid one. Tellingly, on one show Partridge mentions sotto voce that “the money is very good.”

Nowadays generally you’re talking about people who were, perhaps briefly, famous. People from reality TV shows can show up. So can ex-members of Boy and Girl bands. Sportsmen and soap stars, as we’ve seen, are also common, although perhaps the soap stars are those whose normal working life most closely resembles the sheer hard work of a panto season. There can be two or even three shows a day, and the show can run all week, for up to, what, two months.

The pantomime is very well-loved in Britain and consequently it’s regularly reimagined, sometimes being turned all posh like McKellen’s version, sometimes going much more into the themes of the fairytale - say in particularly arty theatres - sometimes making actual proper artistic statements, etc. When I were a lad, on the other hand, it was the last resting place of the variety act. The dancers would come on, we’d be introduced to the principal boy, the first scene would play out, and then in between scenes some act like the Acromaniacs or some puppeteers or something would be cobbled into the plot for no reason at all. Sometimes they’d have the acts wear costumes (ie. we’d be expected to imagine they were street traders or something from the background of the scene we’d just watched), but more often than not it was just a variety act wandering on between scenes without any explanation.

Many comedians, particularly of the older school, either made their name in pantomime or became regular anchors in their later years. Les Dawson was a famously brilliant Dame, one of the best apparently. Joe Pasquale, who won I’m A Celebrity, is doing one this year too - but he probably does one every year. The point about comedians is that it’s the really hard workers who’ll do pantos, the ones who worked their way up through working men’s clubs - as it happens, these also tend to be the less PC comics, more the sort who know thousands of mother-in-law jokes. Smart young political ad-libbers from London’s comedy club circuit don’t show up frequently and one might wonder if it’s the workload that puts them off. Not many “modern” comics have quite the “loveable” persona that would go down well in a panto. But again, you can’t ever stereotype because the panto isn’t an old idea which is regularly revived, it’s an old idea which is uniquely, even frighteningly successful, and seems to grow more successful with every passing year - this year Lily Savage is playing the Wicked Queen in a rival production to that one with McKellen in it. While she’s a traditional act, I’d always thought of Lily Savage as a far more modern figure than would fit into panto, but fit she apparently does. There are definite regional variations in pantos, too. LOCAL stars will be the real pullers - again, it’s about being well-loved. You could hardly find an Englishman among Glasgow’s pantos this December.

The thing is, everybody knows it’s a bloke in a frock (being British we find this the funniest thing in the world), and as the audience will be at least half full of adults, there’ll be at least a little innuendo. Sometimes a great deal. (There are far ruder “adult” pantomimes too but they’re not really the real deal - neither are the one-off celebrity pantomimes you see on television). At the end of virtually every panto I’ve ever been to, there’s a big song where they bring out a board with the words written on it, divide up the audience and get them to sing in competition. There’s usually a few bits where they throw sweets into the audience too.

In addition to the above very accurate post I would say that Sir Ian McKellen is actually playing a Les Dawson type northern comic - ie Sir Ian is playing Les Dawson playing the dame.

Having said all that it’s still Gandalf in a frock, and as such, impossibly funny.

Yes, I think some serious study needs to be devoted to this. I mean, I like Monty Python a lot, I enjoyed Hairspray, Eddie Izzard is terrific (although he’s not in drag to be funny)… but you lot do seem a trifle obsessed with the whole drag thing.

Obsessed barely covers it.

Such disappointment! 16 replies and no-one’s asked you to explain that bit. Only reason I read through the thread. :stuck_out_tongue:

Quite an astonishing pair of thrupennies. Made Jordan look like Tara Palmer Tompkinson.