Menstruator? Individual with a cervix? Bleeding cunt?
What could he possibly be hinting at, y’all?
(Let us appreciate that @RickJay isn’t the one being threatened like this, even though he’s the only one in this thread who has called TW men. It just underscores the dynamic contaminating the entire discourse.)
…what the fuck is this? What on earth are you talking about? I was clearly talking about the term T%RF. No I won’t use that word here. And I have no idea why you bought up those other terms here, except that you wanted to poison the well.
What does this even mean? I opened a thread in ATMB to discuss RickJay’s actions in this thread. I’ve responded multiple times to his words. We are having a discussion here. Nobody is threatening anyone. You are using your identity as a shield to debate, yet again.
It’s the height of passive aggressiveness to tell another poster that you are itching to call them something offensive but you’re not gonna.
If you are going to play those kinds of games, don’t be mad when someone plays them right back.
…except this isn’t true. I’m not itching to call anyone anything. I don’t consider the term offensive, but people here have said that they do consider it offensive, so I won’t use the term. Thats it. Nothing passive aggressive about that at all.
Except I’m not playing a fucking game. Perhaps you should stop assuming I’m doing anything more than saying the words that I said. Because when you “try to play the game back” all you are doing is confusing the fuck out of people.
Thanks, Please know no hurt feelings were intended to towards you or any present past or future trans folk. Can we back to what has been a rational and informative discussion with perfectly salient points I was appreciating the variety of viewpoints.
No doubt. I would think trans people would be impressed that transgender issues are even being discussed at all among a mainly cisgender population.
To build off this, here’s a link I encourage all trans allies to look at in case someone believes it’s only disgruntled ciswomen who believe as I do.
This is what the group’s founder has to say about women (please note the lack of “cis”:
Women and trans-women are different and should be treated with dignity and respect, but differently to ensure both trans-women and women are protected.
Of course, if you’re inclined to dismiss the opinion of females you might dismiss Scott Newgent’s.
Because a chosen pronoun is a politeness, not a deep statement of science. You don’t have to interject science into every conversation, anyway.
Well, no, you keep saying it, but you’re wrong. Reality isn’t going to change if you just keep insisting on the same falsehood over and over.
…you don’t have to inject your personal beliefs into every discussion either. You don’t have to call transgender women men. You don’t have to do that. You can just stop, if you want. I’m choosing not to use a certain word in this thread out of respect for the people that don’t want to hear it. What is stopping you from doing exactly the same thing here?
What I’m saying is a reflection of reality. You don’t have to take my word for it. Misgendering is hurtful, can have negative consequences for both self-confidence and overall mental health. And it steps beyond just being hurtful and into the realms of cruel and demeaning when people are made aware of this fact yet they continue to misgender regardless. And its so easily avoided. All you have to do is top doing it.
…what is this nonsense?
I’m not “inclined to dismiss the opinion of females.” What on earth gives you that impression? Why do you have to invent positions for me, instead of just addressing the words that I say?
There are plenty of women that agree with you. But there are plenty of women that disagree with you as well. This thread is “In My Humble Opinion.” You’ve successfully managed to link to a person and an organization that holds an opinion. Congrats? But the world isn’t short of people with opinions, Scott isn’t participating in this thread, and I’m not really inclined to do a deep dive into a cite that from the outset implies that trans voices that don’t agree with them are not “rational.”
You are not the only person in this world, BB. I was posting to a general audience, not specifically to you.
…who in the “general audience” of this messageboard is inclined to “dismiss the opinion of females?” Who in this thread is inclined to “dismiss the opinion of females?”
This is an IMHO thread on the very subject under discussion. You’re right, I could elect not to post here, as could you. So what?
Male adults aren’t women. That’s a fact. Trans woman are not women; I know you like to state that over and over, but it’s nonsense. Stating that it is nonsense in a discussion on the subject is neither cruel nor demeaning, and you know it; you just want to insult people and cast aspersions in an effort to stop debate. It’s a common tactic, and you can keep accusing me of cruelty all you want; your accusations are absurd and transparently disingenuous. I would say they’re laughable, but since they’re part of a general movement to make women, especially, shut up and do what men tell them to do, it’s really not terribly funny. It’s the same old sexist, patriarchal stuff I thought Western civilization was making progress in getting rid of ,but maybe not.
It’s always easier to assume those who disagree with you are dishonest, but have you considered the possibility that many trans folks and allies sincerely feel this way, and that they are concerned about mental health and sky high suicide rates when advocating for kinder language use when discussing trans issues?
That’s a big part of my concern, anyway. I know personally trans folks who tried (and one who succeeded) to kill themselves. Being misgendered was surely not the only reason, but it certainly didn’t help.
This thread has helped educate me on some real and reasonable concerns that some cis women have about trans rights. It has also revealed what appears to me to be signs of contempt and maybe worse feelings that some posters have for trans people. I’ll kindly suggest that this kind of bigotry is usually not easy to see in one’s self, and can be very deep seated and unconscious, and I hope you’ll look within yourself to see if it might exist.
…all I’m saying is that you don’t have to call transwomen men. Thats a choice that you, personally, have decided to make.
If it were a “fact” then we wouldn’t be having this debate.
I’ll take it that you didn’t bother to click any of my many citations then. I suppose I’ll just let your words speak for themselves. I wasn’t asking for much. Just for a bit of consideration and reflection. But you do you.
There are plenty of cis-women, many who are participating in this thread, who strongly disagree with you. By implying that I"m part of a “general movement to make women, especially, shut up and do what men tell them to do” you are implying that all of the cis-women who agree with me are trying to “make women shut up and do what men tell them to do.” That really dilutes the message you are trying to send out.
It’s not about language. You’re not just asking us to use one word or phrase instead of another, you’re trying to prevent discussion of a concept, one that some of us believe is both untrue and causing harm itself. You’re not asking us to be polite, you’re asking us to lie.
Do you see the difference?
So, I’ve given you your requested cite of someone in this thread misgendering real, not hypothetical, persons. Got anything to say about it?
That’s not what I’m asking for.
RickJay believes transwomen are men and transmen are women. How can he say that in a way you’d find acceptable?
I don’t think it’s acceptable to rhetorically erase trans people, as that language does. Biological male is not the same thing as “man”, which has connotations far beyond just the biological.
And it’s not even relevant to the argument - many good arguments have been made in this thread without misgendering or otherwise rhetorically erasing trans people. Language isn’t set in stone, as much as many folks would like it to be.