Just a thought… but as privileged white hetero-cis-males, maybe we should reserve expressing our opinion on the matter and STFU.
For the whole thread? Or just this particular disagreement between two cis women?
Gotta start somewhere. Why not here with this one.
Okay, I’ll take a break from the thread. Apologies to everyone!
@iiandyiiii, I don’t want you to take a break from the thread. I just don’t want be so resistant to what @YWTF is saying. I’m not afraid to call her out when I think she’s wrong. But I don’t think she’s wrong on the particular point y’all are going back and forth on.
No apologies needed. I was being facetious about the whole privileged white hetero-cis-male thing. But I think it’s worth taking a beat and thinking about whether a generic male opinion is really what’s needed here. Mine, yours, etc. Maybe we should just listen to women on this one.
Yes. Same with the slurs t-shirt. I don’t expect anyone who hasn’t seen the back story to get this, but it’s obvious to both of us. These slurs are aimed at women who refuse to do what’s expected of us: put other people first. Because God forbid a woman not be kind.
Men aren’t getting called prostate havers and people with penises because they wouldn’t put up with that kind of nonsense. And no one tries to make them.
Much in the same way these guys are just making a political statement about racism.
When progressives equate racists to lesbians fighting for their right to same-sex attraction, I feel pretty confident this means something is wrong with progressives.
For some fun, I just googled “lesbian penis transwomen”, and found this article.
This bit is a killer:
That’s why I’m here today: to help you unlearn our society’s nasty transphobia and teach you how to have fun with the trans women in your love life. It’s a noble endeavor, I know. So let’s chat about trans women, how our bodies work, what feels good for us, and what you should know before we go home together.
It is no wonder lesbians are wanting to exit the LGBT movement. All their hard-fought gains are being crapped on. “Nasty transphobia” is how their orientation is being casually characterized in mainstream publications now. The silliness of them then being lectured to on how please people they aren’t attracted to is just too much.
How do you know they’re racist? Maybe they’re just white guys who are sick of being called “racist” all the time, and have adopted the term ironically?
This kind of daftness doesn’t work when you’re the one who evoked the comparison. But maybe you specialize in meaningless non sequiturs.
You would have a point if there were a bunch of black folks accusing white people of racism because they refuse to see black people as white people.
Let’s face facts. I’d have a point if we were talking about prejudice towards any other group except trans people. Your sis here is literally arguing that wearing a shirt declaring that you’re a bigot doesn’t mean you’re a bigot, and is actually totally justified. There’s no way you, or her, would let that fly in literally any other context.
And that tells us a hell of a lot more about “gender critical feminists” than it does about progressives.
Racists don’t wear shirts with “racist” on it. What they do is the complete opposite: they deny they are racist.
I’d rather be surrounded by white folks wearing “racist” T-shirts, than be surrounded by white folks who are complicit in institutional racism by being in extreme denial about it. Maybe it’s because I understand what political speech looks like.
It’s not ironic. If an inability to engage in doublethink and see someone as something they are not is bigotry, then they are bigots.
As a ciswoman I hope I can have a opinion about menstruaters and people who menstruate - doesn’t bother me. Might help a transman who knows he still menstruates so whatever that information is still applies to him too. I’ve said this before, in this thread.
Females meaning the female biological sex- sounds fine.
"Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?” -bothers me. "Woman"doesn’t necessarily mean one who menstruates, which is what that implies.
People telling me “hey I’m transphobic” - oh yeah, someone I don’t want to spend time with, with they say it in conversation, on a shirt, on a mug or wherever.
People saying “hey, I’m not racist, BUT” sure sounds like a racist admitting why their racism is TOTALLY justified.
When someone tells you who they are, believe them.
Anyone can have an opinion. But knowing some women do find it offensive, is it not important to find a phrasing that’s acceptable to all the people concerned?
When trans people inevitably tell you that female meaning biological female is not fine at all, are you going to change your mind? And if so, is there a point at which you’ll say 'hang on, maybe we need a word for the group of people who - how did @AHunter3 put it? - people who lactate, menstruate, ovulate, potentially become pregnant as a consequence of sex with male people, people who develop breasts roughly between 4th grade and 9th grade, people who don’t have the magical revered penis, people whose spoken and singing voice tends to be in the treble clef"?
Sure. What’s transphobic? Is believing trans men aren’t literally men transphobic? How about believing Barbie Kardashian doesn’t belong in a women’s prison, and putting her in one is contrary to the female prisoners human rights? Does only wanting to date people of your same biological sex make you a transphobe, as lesbians are being told?
I suspect the point that the T-shirt is making is more along the lines of…
“If holding this set of pretty innocuous and defensible beliefs is considered by others to be transphobic then fine, I’ll own that label happily”
I’m not surprised that some people are pushing back against the broad-brush labelling that sees any dissension as transphobia.
Including when they tell you they are not a transphobe?
According to Twitter Barbie Kardashian is now out on bail. 
https://mobile.twitter.com/bunifoosh/status/1312409348669399041
Nothing in the media yet though.