Apparently BanquetBear doesn’t believe there is such a thing as truth, which explains a lot.
“Strictly objective” is not the same thing as “objective,” so in fairness there’s a philosophical point to be made there, albeit preferably in a different thread.
Lots of people have a perfectly rational, objective approach to truth, and can agree on usefully clear facts and definitions, when it comes to some things, and take a position of faith on others. History is chock full of people who were pioneering scientists and also deeply religious. TWAW is a spiritual belief, not a position of supported fact, and I’m not going to say spiritual beliefs are something a person shouldn’t hold. They should not, however, be mistaken for truth.
You asserted that TWAW is an intersectional feminist position. For something to be an intersectional feminist position, it actually has to be that. A mere assertion without the support of a rational argument is nothingness.
We could extend this to gender ideology too. Just asserting that you’re a woman, doesn’t make you a woman. Just asserting you have a female brain doesn’t mean you have a female brain.
These are very simple concepts here.
…“need to” was a demand.
Gender-critical ideology lacks compassion to the plight of transgender people.
I haven’t claimed anyone who disagrees with me is a “bad person.” I haven’t argued that you are “obliged to make policy” based on my positions.
Does anyone else see this insane comment? Maybe I’m having a fever dream hallucination again.
That’s fair, and explains the witch-hunt like treatment of women who publicly disagree with those spiritual beliefs.
The video Banquet_Bear linked to explained how repeating a phrase makes people more likely to believe it’s true, which I suppose is his explanation why ‘transwomen are women’ has become such a mantra for the movement.
Did the man claim to be transgender? No? Then how is this story relevant to this discussion?
You need too much hand holding when it comes to drawing inferences from things. Perhaps someone else will answer your question.
…if its good for the goose then its good for the gander. The position “anyone who says they are a woman is woman" is arguably not a position held by every trans activist as can be clearly shown by a fair reading in this thread. Almost everyone here, including myself, have agreed that not every circumstance is clear, that yes, there do need to be guidelines for edge cases and not everything can and should be “black and white.”
But if you want to accept monstro’s blanket “this is the trans activists position” then you should have no problem accepting my blanket “intersectional feminism” statement as well. Intersectionality is inherently pro-transgender rights
You edited the comment before I had a chance to reply. A shame.
Perhaps you need hand holding when it comes to providing links to stories where men have claimed to be transgender in order to get into the women’s bathroom.
Since you’ve provided no evidence for any of your claims, I’m not interested.
…truth is subjective. What you believe to be true and what I believe to be true are often two different things.
No, transwomen are women is a "mantra because of this. It was a show of solidarity, one advocated by many cis-women.
BYE!!!
Lol. I don’t have to take monstro’s word about anything. TWAW is on Stonewall’s main webpage, and there is zero nuance about who really is a woman and who isn’t. And so no, I don’t have to accept anything you say either. It may be hard to appreciate this, but not everyone blindly believes what others tell them. We do have brains for a reason, and some of us regularly use ours.
My brain is telling me right now that a man who acts like he has any business lecturing a black woman about intersectional feminism is a man who should be mercilessly mocked and held up as the kind of mansplainer books are written about. What do you think?
…LOL.
You’ve just linked to a massive resource of 22 questions and answers that have extremely nuanced answers yet you claim that it contains “zero nuance.” Unbelievable.
My belief is that you have been using your identity as a shield to your opinions throughout this thread. I have sympathy for your position. But gender critical feminism is not intersectional. And my brain is telling me right now that trans-gender rights in the United States are in big fucking trouble, that transgender suicide attempt numbers are at shocking levels, that they face severe discrimination, and if the consequences of me speaking up are that I get accused of being a “mansplainer” then that is a risk that I’m willing to take. Its the least I can do.
You are welcome!
Again, you are just making assertions. There is no argumentation here, no substance, no logical case being made. I have little patience with emotional appeals about suicidal transgender people, when we’re talking about women’s rights.
Why should I click on these random links when you can’t even come up with coherent justification for saying I don’t know what intersectional feminism is? You threw this at me apropos of jack shit, and I’m still sitting here dazzled by the sheer stupidity and arrogance behind that.
I don’t know why you keep bringing up gender critical feminism either. I don’t subscribe to the belief that socialization explains 100% why men and women differ in their behaviors and interests, which is a fundamental GC position. It seems likely to me there are biological differences that could explain certain tendencies (such as sexual conduct and aggression) that impact personality and other manifestations of self. That doesn’t mean I believe in gender the way that gender ideologist do. The idea that a female gender could exist in the brain independent from the rest of the body requires scientific support that is lacking.
Or - shocker - one of us could be wrong.
It would be better to say, that since you have announced you don’t think it necessary to back up your arguments with evidence, it isn’t productive to debate with you further.
PS. Speaking up on a message board doesn’t do diddly-squat to improve trans rights in America.
…yes an opinion is often an assertion, we are posting in a forum dedicated to expressing our opinions, I’m asserting my opinion the exact same way as you are asserting yours.
You have no obligation to click those links.
“Lack of compassion.” Ticks box.
This thread is about JK Rowling and the trans furore. You might be talking about just women’s rights. But this thread is about much more than that.
I bring up gender critical feminism because you keep repeating gender critical talking points. And you’ve just done it again.
…yes, you are wrong. Concession accepted.
Except I have been backing up some of my assertions with evidence. Other assertions have been merely opinions, often the challenges to those opinions have been disingenuous, so I don’t take those challenges seriously.
Speaking up will do plenty in support of transgender people that want to post here. This should be a safe and welcoming place . Unfortunately it often isn’t. And you aren’t helping.
The thread is increasingly making it obvious that the well-being of trans women will be staunchly protected and defended by progressives even if doing so means increasing the danger that women and girls are already forced to live with.
I just wish that y’all would just cop to this position. Just admit that this what you believe so we don’t have to hide behind disingenuous rhetoric anymore.