Eh the Dad seems to just have a stick up his ass, maybe he never got a participation trophy. I think for younger children a trophy like that is more a memento or keepsake than a sense of accomplishment. It’s just something tangible they can hold in their hands and look at, thinking back to the fun they enjoyed playing the sport, and it’s sort of like that for the parents as well.
In the larger picture of participation awards in general, I’m opposed to it. I played many sports from age 5-17, and there were minimum expectations about what you had to do. Participation was a pre-requisite of playing, just like wearing the proper gear, doing what the coach wanted immediately, hustling, etc. To me, awarding participation is like saying non-participation is OK, we just wouldn’t have given you this award.
Non-participation is ok. Not every kid plays sports.
Actually, games themselves are a very small part of sports participation. For example, when I played high school baseball, we practiced about 3-4 hours a day, up to 6 days a week, with an additional 30-60 minutes afterwards to clean up the field. When we weren’t practicing, we were expected to be in the weight room. Games were almost anticlimactic.
Another analogy would be classes and tests. Most of school is class time, a very small amount is tests. So the participation award is like saying congratulations for coming everyday, too bad about the F though.
Another way to say it is that participation shouldn’t be rewarded, it should be expected.
I meant non-participation is ok in that you don’t have to sign up in the first place.
[Quote=FoisGrasIsEvil]
You know why he’s on the team? Because the same guys that bullied him a few years ago are his friends now because he goes to war with them every day after school, cheers on their success on the sidelines and is a part of something bigger than himself.
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So who do they bully now? Are there enough spots on the team for all their targets?
Holy shit, I don’t think you realize how perfectly opposing your two quotes above are. People who have strong opposition to participation medals are the same people who value knocking other people’s dick in the dirt - a phrase I learned from a coach when I played high school football. It is this mentality - the pussification of America - that has to go. Not the pernicious effects of giving trophies to kids. This mentality also seems strongest among those who were at best middling athletes when they were young - the ones who need their kids to make up for their own failings. I’ve been a fan of James Harrison as a player for a long time, but he’s the last athlete I would hope for any child to emulate.
Is it? How do you know? What evidence is there that kids who have their losses clearly and fully with all available ensigns, affirmed by adults in early to mkddle childhood do better than kids who don’t?
You know what will teach kids that life is rough and you’ll have shitty days? Life. Life will not spare any opportunity to let you know how very shitty it can be. Do you really think that as an eight year old kid, having failed to get a cheap plastic trinket in affirmation that you were not as good as someone else will really change how you respond to life’s real lessons?
It doesn’t seem like the athletes on your son’s football team are moving through life as ambassadors of strong positive life coping skills. Bullying other kids unless they are wearing your same jersey seems like abhorrent coping skills. Maybe if they had gotten some actual coping skills taught to them rather than getting the message that you are better than the other kids when you knock their dick in the dirt they would be able to handle life a little better now.
Don’t worry, I wasn’t all that serious. I’m just failing to understand what difference it makes. There is some idea that if you give kids participation trophies then something awful will happen to them. I don’t think it matters at all. Going far back in time to the earliest days of sport in the East Cave vs. West Cave Stick Rock League championships had they started giving out participation trophies the world of sports would still be the same today.
I’m pretty sure you can’t get a participation award for not participating at all.
Not yet. But just wait until we complete our pussification of America! Muhahaha!
James Harrison probably makes his kids return the little electronic trophy that accompanied his kids’ triple kill achievement on Halo 3.
Not so much… my experience with participation trophies was on a neighborhood swim team back in the 1980s. Everyone got a little dinky trophy, and the best kids got larger ones for stuff like Fastest Lap, or MVP, and stuff like that. There were a handful- maybe 8 or so of those spread across probably 50 kids between the ages of 5 and 15.
The thing was, you could show up to practice every single day all summer, bust ass, and get trounced in the qualifying heats EVERY SINGLE MEET because you sucked at it. Meaning you never got a ribbon at all (all finals places got a colored ribbon), never mind a 1st/2nd/3rd ribbon.
Meanwhile, that guy who would end up going on to be a Big-12 collegiate swimmer is winning every qualifying heat, and usually getting 1st or 2nd in the finals in every single race/stroke he’s competing in. He’s a shoo-in for the MVP trophy, and probably the fastest lap trophy as well.
Those kids that got their asses handed to them every single week are the ones who were working for that dinky trophy at the end of the year- they showed up, they did their best, they cheered their buddies on, and they never got any ribbons.
Even more “serious” sports like football do the same thing, in a somewhat more surreptitious way. How many varsity lettermen were seniors who managed to get in enough downs during garbage time during their senior season in order to get the letter jacket? On our team, it was probably 25% of the team. Just about every good player was getting their 2nd or 3rd letter, as they’d been good enough to be on the team as a sophomore or junior. But the bench-riding scrubs still got letters if they managed to play in like 4 games, even if that meant the last drive during huge blowouts. It’s the same thing as a participation trophy for smaller kids.
Right. And I was saying there’s nothing wrong with not participating and, therefore, not getting a trophy. But I didn’t mean not participating in the sense that you’re on the team and not trying. I meant it in the sense that you never signed up for the team in the first place.
This is the piece i can’t seem to grasp. The kids that get their asses handed to them every week aren’t working for a dinky trophy. They are participating simply because they are enjoying whatever activity they are participating in. They would participate with or wihtout the dinky little trophies
They also are well aware of where they are in the fishbowl of their competition. Whether they are the sharks or the plankton, they get it… They understand they get their asses handed to them every week. They also understand that the participation trophy is an acknowledgement of you suck but here’s a little sumpin’ sumpin’ anyway.
Participation trophies are more for the parents than the kids. Kids get ranked on for the participation trophies amongst their peers and do the ranking on their peers depending on the activity. Maybe the football kid gets a trophy for MVP but can’t play soccer worth a shit.
Are you suggesting that children’s participation in sports is solely driven by an innate love of the sport? I’d suggest that parental desires and behaviors play a huge part in it.
I also think it’s disingenuous to conflate the presentation of participation awards with periods of hard work and dedicated practice. The former is almost exclusively limited to youth community league sports in early to middle childhood. The latter is an element of comchildhod and travel leagues in late childhood and adolescence.
Parents play a role in it absolutely. Stage mothers and fathers making their kids participate in sports or activities with which they have little or no to a passing interest. Snoop Dogg’s son being a recent example.
The participation trophies are for the parents. The kids participate because they enjoy the activity or were forced in to it by their parents. Neither of those make the presentation of a participation trophy of any value to the child in question.
So do the athletes who are really good. Are THEY only playing for the trophy? Why is it important to recognize their excellence with a prize instead of the inherent good feeling of doing well at something?
What really begins to piss me off is the underlying disrespect given to participants, to the competition. Without them, there would be no league for the great athlete to play in. God forbid you give the kids who literally make the league possible a token of appreciation.
I don’t think anyone is opposed to recognition of participation–a token, a certificate, a T-shirt, a trip with the gang to the ice cream parlor. At least, I hope no one is opposed to that.
The problem, for those of us of a certain age, is offering that recognition in the form of a trophy. Trophies were a traditional symbol of athletic excellence, reserved for championship teams or outstanding players. Trophies were special. And now they’re not. It would be like putting everyone who graduates on the honor roll, or giving everyone who competes an Olympic medal. Something valuable has been lost.
So why acknowledge the top performers? They know they did well and know that they are at the top of their game, so why do they need a ribbon or trophy either?
My answer is because we acknowledge what we value.
We value people who are at the top of their game because that’s a great accomplishment and makes the sport fun to watch. But we also value the person who shows up, works hard, makes sure we don’t forfeit due to too few players, has good team spirit and lives up to a commitment. Those are also wonderful values wrapped up in the term “participation”. By acknowledging it we are reinforcing that we value it. Internal motivation is great, but external reward is important too. It lets the kids know we’re proud of them.
So it’s for the parents? We give the kids trophies because we can’t hug our kids and say “I’m proud of you. Great job. You’ll get 'em next time. Let’s go grab a slice and a Coke”? That’s how I let my kids know I am rpoud of them.
Why do we give a trophy or award to top performers? The answer is because that’s what competition is about… Acknowleding the best of a given activity. We give awards for the best spellers. We give awards to top athletes. To top sellers of fund raising. We give awards for all sorts of top performers. That’s the nature of competition.
Kids don’t play for the trophy. But competition is all about recognizing top performers. Well, which is it?
The thing is, I don’t disagree with either of those statements. And nobody said every kid should get a trophy that says “You’re the best!” The participation award is just an acknowledgement that you did it. You were part of a team. You put in the effort. The best kid on the team can get the trophy that says “MVP.”