Sorry, but I never said both tests were complicated. I said that one was, and the other was not. So I am not sure why you would imply otherwise, if your intentions are pure.
Also, Randi is *not *the final say. I think this is the kind of thing **Czarcasm **has cautioned you against. There is no “final say.” What constitutes a successful Challenge is spelled out clearly, so as to be completely unambiguous, before the test begins, and agreed to by both participants.
It is dishonest of you to suggest otherwise, and does your cause no good.
There is a huge qualitative difference between these two tests and if you can’t honestly tell the difference then it is useless discussing these issues with you.
The other test can’t be won–it is impossible and is judged against a standard that can’t be met and then judged by committee–something that would be impossible to win. There would be moving goalposts throughout this test.
Randi’s test is not impossible to win IF any psychic or other woo existed in the world. A simple standard is set on before the test and that standard either proves the claim or it doesn’t. But since these abilities don’t exist his money is safe.
Well, we know that 90% of the world believe in some God and the afterlife. Lots of polls on this. There are some religious people that don’t believe in psychics and some that don’t like psychics but agree they exist. I heard that 70% on the TV, but have no way of validating it. But sounds reasonable to me. I don’t want to send anyone into overdrive, but I am very confident the current studies and research on spiritual things prove their existence.
Would you have a sample of this agreement with any psychic, not the peeing in the pants farse please. I don’t believe a sample has ever been known, and couldn’t Randi just negotiate the agreement to the point where he was certain no one could win. He has the final say in the agreement, otherwise I could negotiate a very easy one that could be met quickly, and He also has the final say if the agreement was met, now if this is wrong tell me who does. You add “since these abilities don’t exist his money is safe.” Randi doesn’t believe that, I have heard him on the Larry King show say he believe that psychic ability does exist, otherwise what would be the purpose of the test. You tell me, I really want to understand.
Now, if Randi can prove the things he says, no psychics, no afterlife, why hasn’t he collected the million from the Lawyer. Seems very logical to me.
Maybe you can believe that, but I can’t and no psychic could either. When I was young I belonged to a labor union and was the chief negotiator of their contracts. No matter how clear, precise, and simple agreements are there is always room for interpretation. Look at the rules, laws, agreements of corporations, individuals and govenment. They are in constant litigation on the interpretation of some clause or item. That’s why we have lawyers to begin with. That’s the way it is in the big world out there.
No, he doesn’t. Randi doesn’t even have to be there. The check will be presented upon successful completion of the test. Randi has piss-all to do with it once the protocols have been agreed upon.
Nobody. Nobody has the final say. Your logic is faulty. Why assume there must be a final say? Where is it stated?
The lawyer demands that a claimant prove to an absolute certainty that each and every one of thousands of discrete pieces of data are false. Randi’s Challenge asks for proof that one piece of data is true. I find it impossible to believe that this concept is beyond you; yet, I must assume that if you argue in good faith it must be. You do argue in good faith, don’t you?
Just had one more thought, after months of a very hard, tough-fought contract was signed, the management negotiator came up to me and said: “you know that contract we signed isn’t worth the paper it is printed on.” At this point I thought his intentions were to break the contract, but then he added “the only thing that matters is how we treat each other.” I shook his hand in agreement, and the relationship greatly improved.
Good Lord. You are seriously putting forth the rules of corporations and governments as examples of simple agreements? That may be to most idiotic thing I have heard in years.
If a dowser says “I can find the water in a series of sealed containers five times out of ten,” then that’s it! Five or better passes, less than five fails. A hundred government lawyers couldn’t claim otherwise.
I really don’t know where you got an idea like “nobody has the final say” but it didn’t come from experience. Somebody always has the final say in everything. That’s reality.
I repeat: there’s never been one single solitary case where psychic ability has been demonstrated under laboratory conditions. Ever. Despite thousands of people claiming to be psychics. How can you believe that their existence is “proven” when not one single psychic has ever demonstrated this ability under verifiable conditions.
I read this study. It’s drawing correlations between psychics (none of whom have been proven to have any psychic ability at all) and their star charts (which have never been proven to have any significance whatsoever). What could one possibly learn from this study?
OK. Let’s say that I claim that I can lay a penny down flat on a table, and stack another one on top of it. Then I proceed to do so. Are you suggesting that some person, known or unknown, has the final say over whether I did so? Really? Someone *always *has the final say in everything? Preposterous. I feel sorry for you if that is indeed your reality. It must be a lonely and confusing world, never knowing if anything will hold fast, always wondering if the rules will be changed once again. Is that a fried egg, or not? How can I know if this is my car? Who is this beautiful woman?
Lekatt, if the MDC were won by the agreed-upon rules, and Randi refused to release the funds, there would be such a court case you wouldn’t believe (and you believe almost anything). I, myself, would be in the side of the claimant, as I suspect most of those in this community even those who don’t agree with you. You absolutely have no leg to stand on if you think this isn’t a valid, enforceable contract between parties with a simple, unambiguous outcome.
I am saying “I” don’t believe they exist. I still keep an open mind–but your debating style leaves something to be desired so I am quite confidant that you won’t prove anything to me since you don’t debate in any logical manner.
Now if Randi believes or not I don’t know. But you are saying in the first paragraph that he believes–yet in your last paragraph you are saying he doesn’t believe in psychics. Which is it?
Your logic seems odd to me. The claim is that these mystical things exist–then prove it. The reverse doesn’t need to happen. In the absence of evidence the base assumption is that they don’t exist. If I state that I think little green men live on the moon, wouldn’t you say that it is up to me to prove it rather then for me to say prove to me they don’t exist?
Yes, someone would call the task completed. Every task has to be acknowledged finished or not. Besides what you propose is far to simple to be a demonstation of psi ability and you know it.
Do you believe a fork lift operator could use his fork lift only to pick up a penny laying flat on a smooth cement floor?
No court case at all, only the claimant’s word against Randi’s or one of his assistants. With psi there will never be a simple outcome.
If things were fair and equal at Randi’s I could win the million easily, so could you. I would duplicate the plant experiements done by Cleve Baxter. He hooked a plant up to a lie detector and beamed thoughts of killing the plant in the plant’s direction and the plant, though the lie detector, reacted a bunch. The plant “heard” his thoughts. He did a lot more also.
I just saw the experiment duplicated on mythbusters. It’s simple, it shows psychic ability, in a straightforward and honest manner. Later the mythbusters team tried different machines and different media which didn’t work and falsely called it busted. The original experiment worked just fine, the one like Baxter done. Even after they had eliminated all chance of vibrations and errant energy signals.
Quick way to make a buck fellows.
Someday maybe science will stop ignoring good research that just happens to show current science theories wrong.
I have much, much more material. This is real stuff.