JamesCarroll, you fucking ignorant asshole

OK, so far in the past couple days, I’ve seen two posts by you engaging in pit-worthy behaviour in other forums towards drug users. Well, we can all cross the line sometimes, especially with issues that we care deeply about, so that is really not a huge issue. The big problem I have is that you are an asshole. And goddam fucking stupid one at that.

And now, for the inevitable piece by piece breakdown:

Yeah, that’s a good idea in Great Debates. Moron.

Since it was in a debate on legalization, I’d say the important facts would be how long you were in prison for, and how much it helped.

Uh, then post it there. Idiot.

Or there won’t be. Many people have done drugs with no serious side effects. For example, I have smoked pot exactly three times in my life. Can’t say that it’s made a difference in my life. Some people have problems. But not all. Not even fucking close.

How’s this for a legitimate reason: I do not accept that you or anyone else has the right to decide what substances I can injest into my own body. Or how about: I don’t believe that it is a good idea for society as a whole to put massive numbers of people who have never harmed anyone else into jail.

Hemp being illegal is just something that’s easy to protest because it’s so ridiculously simple. You can’t make paper out of hemp because, ahh, it comes from a plant that people could smoke to get high :rolleyes:. Yeah, that fucking makes sense.

And all the people that smoke marijuana and don’t get adicted at all are what, statistical fucking anomalies? Freaks of nature? Or perhaps we should just ban it because some people seem to find it addictive. Though not nearly as addictive as, say, cigarettes.

Force? Wait, not throwing people in jail is forcing them to do the thing they aren’t getting tossed in jail for? You got a mighty odd definition of force there. Why, just this morning, I had to resist those forcing me to stick my hand in the toaster by not making that illegal.

Personally, I don’t want to draw a line anywhere. I simply don’t believe (see above) that society has the right to prevent people from jinjesting chemicals into their own bodies. Of course, this is provided that they are not, in doing so, necessarily subjecting others to danger, such as by driving.

Hey, I know, why don’t you just arrange our lives for us so that we can all be eficient drones in your perfect little society. Fuck rights. They should work.

Incidentally, you got any cites on, for example, how often workers in the Netherlands take sick days as compared to Belgium or France (I’m guessing that would be somewhat more useful for isolating the legality of marijuana as the variable than a comparison to the US)? Or on the productivity of recreational drug users? Care to weigh that against the cost of the massive incarceration and violence caused by prohibition? Or do you prefer blaming it all on those damned druggies?

Scum of the earth? Murderers and rapists have nothing on those damn pot smokers, do they? The rest is just the incomprehensible ravings of a lunatic. I’ve been offered drugs many times by acquaintances who were recreational users. Never was it an attempt to drag me into their personal hell. That is just bullshit.

Oh great God of determining how others are progressing with their lives, BUTT THE FUCK OUT!!! They aren’t your lives! Jesus Christ, I’ve got enough trouble worrying about my own damn fucking problems without having time or self-importance to decide how everyone else is doing.

OK, I’ll leave you to the other intelligent pro-legalization people around here. I’ve got shit to do now. Have at it all of you. And please excuse the weak rant, it’s actually my first time taking someone to the Pit.

Link?

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=58914

Yeah, thanks. There’s also the IMHO thread (http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php?action=newreply&postid=1117926) where he said (in regard to his favorite kind of marijuana):

Yeah… you smoke pot, you deserve to be killed! Fucking asshole.

waterj2 and Krispy Original, thanks for the information. I will take action on it.

Lynn

Umm… I was gonna say something… What was… Hey, are those Oreos?

What’s really funny is his generalization. I’m all in favor of legalization of most illegal drugs… and yet, I’ve never used any sort of narcotic in my life. Never smoked pot, never dropped acid, never snorted coke… nothin’.

Yeah. I’m SUCH a druggie… watch me get high off my aspirin! Woohoo! I’m a threat to society, I am!

As we are in the Pit I will defend myself (actions taken in other forums have been dealt with).

I stand by what I said and will defend it to the end. Drugs are killing this country and its citizens everday. Crime and addiction are not the result of evil Republican/ Drug War conspiracies. And if, for some reason, there is a portion of the population that refuses to acknowledge the damage they are doing to themselves, their families, and their communities, then I believe that we have a right and obligation to place harsh and punitive damages against them.

I will not apopoligize for taking a hard stance against drugs.

Goodness gracious! He seems to have bought right in to the 1980’s era “Just Say No” mentality! Not much of a thinker, is he?

Also, I just want to add my name to the list of people who have smoked pot and lived to tell about it.

Like you,SPOOFE, I have never done any form of drug in my life. At the ripe old age of 25, I have yet to smoke pot. BUT I fully support a person’s right to choose what he/she does with his/her OWN BODY. I do not presume to know the right choices for everyone.

JamesCarroll, did you ever stop to think that many of the societal ills “caused” by drugs would be ameliorated with their legalization? Hate to say it as I’m sure it’s been beaten to death, but take a look at what happened after Prohibition took effect. Funny, you don’t see gangs shooting each other over illegal alcohol grade anymore. I say, tax the shit out of them, the way we do alcohol and cigarettes, and use the money to fund rehab programs for the (minority of) people who can’t handle it. We already do that for alcohol and cigarettes, don’t we? Subsidize AA and emphysema patients on Medicare? So why draw the line there? Why should your bad experiences limit my rights?

It boggles the mind that because you had problems with drugs you assume everyone else will too. Methinks you’ve watched “Reefer Madness” one too many times.

Not to mention the lazy thinking that led to the New York State “Rockefeller Drug Laws” of 1973, which are the primary reason the state prisons are groaning under the weight of thousands upon thousands of non-violent lawbreakers. Thank god the current Republican governor is trying to rescind them (the Democratic ones over the past 25 years were too spooked at the thought of being called “soft on crime” to do anything).

– Uke (daily weedsmoker from 1976-1989, no side effects noticable beyond a finely developed palate and powerful appreciation of good music; veteran of dozens upon dozens of psychedelic experiences, no side effects noticable beyond brilliant spiritual insight sans accompanying organized-religion dogma; minor-league coke user, no side effects noticable beyond pleasant memories of fun New Year’s Eves and dancing in nightclubs)

It’s true that addiction and drug war policy are completely unrelated. We addicts would be addicts regardless of the drug policy. We just shouldn’t be in prison(where, ironically, you can still get drugs).
And the drug war policy is not evil. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Saw it on a t-shirt once.

I knew I was avoiding that Legalization thread for a good reason.

JamesCarroll, you are a grade-A fuckwit asshole.

I’ve tried many things, legal and not. Usage has varied from daily to occasional, depending on the drug and life situation. Most occurred during my ‘wild college days’.

Problems: had to quit drinking for a while many years ago; I was depressed and got vicious when I drank. Personal decision only - no counseling or rehab needed. Tried to quit smoking last year, but life crises overcame the urge - I plan to give it a try again soon. Nicotine’s a bitch!

Current status: still running daily on nicotine, caffeine and sucrose. Alcohol maybe 1-3 drinks per week. Maybe once or twice a year on anything else. Full time, permanent employment in a reasonably good job that I like; supporting a family and enjoying life.

Damn, I guess I shouldnta done all those drugs and fucked myself up so bad. If only I’d known… :rolleyes:

So are cars! Cars are killing this country and its citizens everyday! I will not apologize for taking a tough stance against cars! I want them to be illegal because SOME people drive recklessly!

or better yet:

I will drive safely, fasten my seatbelt and realize that all I can do in this world is look out for myself, my husband and perhaps one day my children.

James, I don’t think anyone in the world is denying that SOME PEOPLE have a huge problem with drugs and those people sometimes do harm to others. If you spin off and kill your family while high on crank…you should go to jail. If you’re sitting in your dorm room smoking a joint, watching Johnny Bravo…you should not. It’s just that simple.

I think we learned something from the Pit Bull argument that can apply here:

THERE ARE NO BAD DRUGS…ONLY BAD DRUG USERS :slight_smile:

jarbaby

Okay, I’ve been watching this pile on now with apprehension and at the risk of alienating some of my favorite posters I feel I should step and admit that I have some sympathy towards James position.

I do feel that the “drug war” is ineffective. Beyond that my attitudes are a bit more murky.

I do agree with Gundy (of whom I became a secret admirer after her wonderful neighbor thread) on a certain level. I really don’t care if someone smokes a joint in their home. I get grumpy if they smoke it in front of me in a public place because than I am affected by their habit too. I get angry when they smoke it while driving just as I get angry if someone consumes alcohol, sleeping pills, or fails to sleep for 24 hours before getting behind the wheel.

But if their actions are not affecting me, what right do I have to disallow what they choose to do to themselves? For the most part I feel that it’s not my business. But my feelings get murky when I consider the full extent of this philisophy. Should someone be allowed to stick anything they want into themselves? What about Windex? It’ll kill them. Do we stop suicides? It’s their body… Glue sniffers… glue is legal. Inhaling it produces a unique high I’m told, also brain damage. Do we have an obligation to stop people from self destructing? Or do we let them and then pick up the medical costs for their foolishness. I clearly feel that jail is not the solution to these problems. But at what level do we trade away our privacy to allow the governement to protect us from ourselves? None at all is idealistic but it doesn’t save lives. Unfortunatly our current drug policy isn’t geared towards saving lives.

A great disservice to our society was done with the early outrageous claims of the horrors of pot smoking. I now feel that we are too easily inclined to swing the other way and believe that pot is a completly harmless substance. It isn’t. (But then neither is water.) Inhaling smoke into your lungs is still bad for you. The full effects of THC on the brain are still not completly understood. Is it worse than alcohol? I don’t know, but then again alcohol can be a pretty lethal drug. Should pot be made legal? I don’t know, I feel we kinda have enough vices now. Do we need another? I will agree that our current way of dealing with this substance is foolish.

Let me shallowly try to misdirect any hurt feelings away from myself by saying that I want to join the Jarbaby fan club. I’ve really enjoyed some of her postings. But I have to disagree with her here. It isn’t too difficult to come up with a lethal drug. And no one sets out to become a bad drug user.

In this tech age many of us have become accustomed to working with absolutes. A computer with this setup will be able to handle this program. A computer with lesser memory will not. But with biology absolutes are more difficult to determine. One person can take in a substance and have no ill effect upon their life. Another person taking the same substance loses control.

Many drugs, even legal ones, have physically addicting qualities. How well someone can resist that depends upon biology. Almost luck. I’ve never had an urge to stick my life on the roulette wheel.

Many drugs become habit not because of physical addiction but because the person craves for the feeling that the drug gives them. Addiction need not be a drug. Gambling, driving fast, - any habit that begins to interfer with living one’s life can be considered a habit. I suspect I’m addicted to Everquest. If someone would like to go in there and pull me out I’m under the name Pathwalker.

Legalizing drugs isn’t going to curb craving anymore than keeping them illegal. If an addict can’t afford them, the addict will steal them. Beer and cigerattes are common theft items now, add your newly legalized drugs to the target list. Making the drugs cheaper will not ensure a drop in crime. If someone stays home all day doing drugs (or playing Everquest)soon they have no job and no price is going to be low enough.

And despite the rosy picture that some users like to paint. Many of these drugs can kill you. From the heart related problems caused by cocaine to the ease of overdosing on heroin, lots of people die from drug use every year. Yeah, I know. Don’t drive in your car then because that can get you killed too. But by that logic perhaps we should start running with scissors in the hallway. Why add one more way to die?

So in summary,

Mmmm… drugs are bad…mkay?

Golly…thanks Blackclaw. I didn’t know anyone here really knew me yet.

Oh…I see. “CANCEL THAT MEMEBERSHIP CARD!” :wink:

Well, here’s what happened. I wrote something that popped into my head without THOROUGHLY thinking it out, and I apologize.

What I mean is… (and now I’m starting to feel stupider and stupider until this post eventually turns into a miniature Flowers For Algernon)… exactly what you said.

So i was essentially trying to imply that every drug user is different…and while I don’t use drugs (except alcohol and happy back pills), I have seen plenty of people who are functioning non-scums-of-the-earth. It’s how and to what extent you use a drug that makes it bad.

In hindsight…I was trying to hard to be witty and it ended up giving me the ol’ rake in the face.

I too, think drugs are bad, so I don’t take them…but if waterj2 tells me he can take them and function and live a great life, I believe him, too.

In conclusion…if you’re going to make anything that’s ‘potentially addictive and dangerous’ illegal, they’re going to have to take away Old El Paso Frozen Bean Burritos, blackclaw…and I know you don’t want that :slight_smile:
jarbaby

Golly, thanks!

**

Hmm, think I’m gonna be on the other side of this from you, Blackclaw. Suicide, huffing, smoking, drinking, smoking pot/crack, shooting up heroin - they’re all self-destructive in one fashion or another. Of course, suicide is at one end of the spectrum, drinking at the other - but no one’s going to say they’re good for you. I just don’t think it’s the government’s responsibility to say what people can and can’t do with their own bodies in those respects, particularly when a substance/action is not universally negative. I do think that government sponsored programs for rehab, etc., are a good thing, simple because they are helping those in need. But to say that the government should eliminate and/or criminalize a substance/action because it is a bad choice for SOME is unfair, in my opinion.

**

I don’t think anyone here is saying, “Run out and shoot up smack now! It’s fun and good for you!” To me, it’s simply a matter of personal autonomy. Yeah, I haven’t done any drugs - not for lack of opportunity, but lack of interest. But, I did have a baby at the tender age of 18. Is that the right choice for everyone, was it even the right choice (at the time) for me? Probably not on both counts. But it turned out hunky-dory for me. That’s not to say that I recommend it, only that I shouldn’t be stopped from making my own choices.

I’m out?

Blackclaw sniffs sadly and begins to tear up his Jarbaby fan club application.

But wait! There was a smiley there. Maybe I’m still in! Where’s the tape?

I dunno, the digestive effects of a frozen bean burrito can be awfully dangerous. But I suppose I am forced to admit that what is considered legal and safe versus dangerous and illegal can seem to be pretty arbitrary.

Gundy,

I completly understand your point. I don’t really want government agents watching over my shoulder the next time I put together a model airplane.

Agent - “Was that a huff?”

Me - “No it was a sigh.”

Agent - “I wouldn’t have used the color scheme.”

We can’t rely on the government to save the young and the foolish from every possiblity of self destruction or lapse of judgement. But does that mean we give up entirely? I agree that rehabilitation may be the best solution. But rehabilitation is a tough struggle.

There are some subtances that I think are a bad choice for anyone. Heroin for example.

I’ll still like you if you disagree with me, but I may have to drive by your place at 1 AM and lay on the horn. :slight_smile:

Steak is bad for you too. So is sugar, and coffee, and chocolate and … I guess we should make all of those illegal too, heh?

The argument can go to ridiculous extremes either way; I’m all for moderation. I’ve seen people screw up their lives with drugs. I’ve seen people screw up their lives just as badly without drugs. Addictive and self-destructive behavior is not limited to drug abuse, nor is drug use required for such behavior to exist.

Criminalizing drug use only makes the problem much, much worse.
However, JamesCarroll’s outrageous (particularly in GD) statements are so far off the edge that I stand by my opinion of him.