Jena 6 member finds a fresh start difficult

[Shodan]

@Bricker

The problem arose when the perpetrators of aggravated battery were charged with attempted murder, despite the lack of any evidence to support all the elements of that charge.

I was once told (in the course of my training in self-defence, not in law school) that one circumstance that could justify use of deadly force in self-defense was being attacked by multiple assailants.

I believe that the prosecuting attorney in the Jena Six thing said that the shoes were the lethal weapon that justified the murder charge. Might it not be the case, however, that the six-to-one ratio of attackers to defendent might be evidence to justify a murder charge?

Obviously, it would depend on the state, etc., etc.

Regards,
Shodan

[mhendo]

@Shodan

I was once told (in the course of my training in self-defence, not in law school) that one circumstance that could justify use of deadly force in self-defense was being attacked by multiple assailants.

I believe that the prosecuting attorney in the Jena Six thing said that the shoes were the lethal weapon that justified the murder charge. Might it not be the case, however, that the six-to-one ratio of attackers to defendent might be evidence to justify a murder charge?

Obviously, it would depend on the state, etc., etc.

Regards,
Shodan

I think that these are important questions, and that they deserve a full examination in the context of existing law, of previous cases, and of general ideas about how to charge defendants in cases like this. Personally, i think that there’s a decent argument to be made that any 6-on-1 assault could reasonably be interpreted as attempted murder.

But i think that if we get into a debate about those important issues in this thread, we do the OP a courtesy he doesn’t deserve, because his OP was all about self-righteous idiocy and a complete unwillingness to consider the actual issues. He’s a race-baiting troll, nothing more, with a history of this sort of crap, and doesn’t deserve to have his threads rescued by people with more integrity than he has.

[The_King_of_Soup]

mhendo, you’re beginning to see it. It does no good to have these arguments, even if you win, because the OP has no intention (or, given his intellectual and moral idiocy, hope) of defending the things he says. That’s because, to him, it’s not an honest discussion. What it is, is advertising.

The OP doesn’t need to convince anyone of anything, so long as he appears prominently saying and doing all the right things. In these threads, he’s basically billing himself as The Guy In Charge Of Not Letting Blacks Get Away With Stuff. All he needs is a news story anywhere on the planet about a black person doing something wrong, and he’s off and running at the mouth. Eventually (in this thread, post #15), he’ll trumpet that he’s proven that affirmative action kills, or some such monstrous and moronic conclusion. And then, as he begins to get buried by facts and coherent thought, he starts to disappear. People who know him just slightly begin to rejoice at his absence, but others know it’s just the beginning of the end of this commercial, and only a matter of time until the next one.

The only purpose of these things is to attract the occasional oddity (probably not even a member of the SDMB) who’ll be attracted to the bigotry so strongly that they’ll ignore the condemnation and ridicule. It’s an unintended (at least on the part of the OP) bonus if a heavyweight like Bricker wanders by ostensibly offering up expert support for the notion that the original charges in Louisiana may have been justified by the later actions of one of the six defendants, without being quite loud enough about his disclaimers. By the time things are clear, the OP may have found a new friend and certainly has found another newspaper report about something bad done by some person of color, and it’s time for another free disinfomercial for hate.

So what do we do, other than wait a couple of generations, by which time social justice and racial mixing will have advanced to the point where danceswithscat’s own descendants speak of him only when necessary, and with shame, and do all they can to spare their children from any knowledge at all of their great-grandfather’s existence?

The only thing I can think of is, less serious engagement and more ridicule. The subject is ready for it, after all. A early-to-late-middle-aged white male is absolutely obsessed with the idea that the solution to America’s problems is for him to personally denounce any malefaction committed by any black person that has been previously published on the internet. A pathetic keyboard vigilante who presents a danger not to the guilty, but only to the thoughtful, and even then, only as an utter waste of time.

[Contrapuntal]

@The King of Soup

**It’s an unintended (at least on the part of the OP) bonus if a heavyweight like Bricker wanders by ostensibly offering up expert support for the notion that the original charges in Louisiana may have been justified by the later actions of one of the six defendants, without being quite loud enough about his disclaimers.

Did **Bricker **say that? it seemed to me that he was recapitulating the OP’s argument, not stating it as his own.

He definitely did say this :

They were not, however, murderous (or attempted-murderous) thugs, and being charged thusly was gross overcharging, for which protest was appropriate.

[TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW]

Look at that animal - not a hint of reason or thought in his vacant eyes. It’s like looking at a picture of a cow or dog, just something born and bred for unthinking violence. I’ve never understood the whole Jena 6 thing; people rallied behind the lowest-common-denominator petty thugs and were shocked when they did things like flaunt the money they received, turn up at the BET awards thuggin’ it up, and now continue to do violence.

[Acsenray]

@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

I’ve never understood the whole Jena 6 thing; people rallied behind the lowest-common-denominator petty thugs and were shocked when they did things like flaunt the money they received, turn up at the BET awards thuggin’ it up, and now continue to do violence.

Do say this knowing that it is completely untrue or are you just so deluded?

People “rallied” because the Jena 6 had been unjustly charged with attempted murder. Period. End of story. The rest of this stuff is in your imagination.

[catsix]

TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW said:
Look at that animal - not a hint of reason or thought in his vacant eyes. It’s like looking at a picture of a cow or dog, just something born and bred for unthinking violence.

I know virtually nothing about the Jena 6, but this is the exact thought that I had about one of my former students, and he has since confessed to several murders and is on death row. He always mimicked the behavior of human beings very well, but he could never hide the completely vacant eyes.

Kind of like Dexter, only a lot less sympathetic and fictional.

[Shodan]

@acsenray

Do say this knowing that it is completely untrue or are you just so deluded?

People “rallied” because the Jena 6 had been unjustly charged with attempted murder. Period. End of story. The rest of this stuff is in your imagination.

The rest of what stuff?

Here is the quote to which you objected -

@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW

I’ve never understood the whole Jena 6 thing; people rallied behind the lowest-common-denominator petty thugs and were shocked when they did things like flaunt the money they received, turn up at the BET awards thuggin’ it up, and now continue to do violence.

Which part do you think is untrue - that people rallied behind the Jena 6, that the Jena 6 were petty thugs, that people were shocked by the behavior evinced from the 6, that they flaunted the money, that they appeared at the BET award show, or that at least one of them is continuing to do violence?

I think it is a little naive to assert that they got support merely because they were unjustly charged. They got support because they were black, and they attacked a white kid. And the circumstances of the attack make it at least debatable that the attempted murder charge was unjust.

It would seem to me that a continuing pattern of violent offenses makes it increasingly hard to deny that at least one of the Jena Six is and remains a petty thug.

Regards,
Shodan

[Ludovic]

WRT TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW:
DNFTT. TYVM.and

[The_King_of_Soup]

What a fun idea: catsix and TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW analyzing character from afar, by reading eyes. It makes me hope that someday they’ll graduate to something even more scientifically rigorous, like phrenology, and that their weekly exploits will be televised in hour-long segments brought to us by Bird’s-Eye Frozen Okra:

Excerpt from Bumps in the Night, episode xxiv, "Horns of A Dilemma:"

catsick: …and that’s how we know you’re the Cuisinart Killer, Annie. Those empty, expressionless eyes gave you away.

TLetc: And my sensitive fingers on your scalp, playing in your red curls, confirmed it, baby. I don’t regret the romance, but I’m a tad ambivalent about the “gazpacho” we shared.

catsick: Ew.

Annie: Have mercy! I’ve been picked on all my life because I’m so little. I’ve had no mother or father to protect me and teach me right from wrong!

catsick: Too late for excuses, Annie. You’re going to pay. And your little dog, too! (Sandy, in a cage, barks furiously)

Annie: All right, then, I’ll do it the messy way. Bossy!

TLetc.: catsick! Freeze!

catsick: She’s got…she’s got…

TLetc.: She’s got a cow – an animal born and bred for unthinking violence. You’ve got no chance fighting it, catsick: we’re going to have to try to out-think it.

Bossy: Moooooo.

catsick: TLetc, I’m frightened!

Annie: Bossy, kill! (Music swells, fade to third commercial break)

[mhendo]

@Shodan

It would seem to me that a continuing pattern of violent offenses makes it increasingly hard to deny that at least one of the Jena Six is and remains a petty thug.

Regards,
Shodan

I guess if you could demonstrate anyone in this thread denying that, you might have a point. I thought, from your previous post, that you might actually grasp the issues involved here; now i’m not so sure.

[catsix]

Read my post again, King of Soup. I said I don’t know much of anything about the Jena 6 and then went on to describe one of my former students. Someone who sat in my class twice a week for three semesters.

There was no ‘afar’. The guy was six feet in front of me, interacting with me and pretending to be a normal human being. And then he savagely killed at least eight people, including children, and was sentenced to die.

He was an excellent mimic, an intelligent student (dean’s list caliber), and an exceedingly polite person. He copied behavior and he did it well so that he would appear to fit in, but he always had cold, expressionless eyes. When he was saying ‘Yes ma’am’ and ‘Thank you’ he was acting.

This guy spent time previous to being in my classes in federal prison for drug trafficking and is on death row for the cold-blooded killing of a couple of children while serving life sentences for the murder of the adults he killed, and when asked about him after the fact (and all his instructors were asked by the police), I told them exactly the same: he was nothing other than polite to me.

Whether this Jena 6 guy is one of those or not, I don’t know. What I do know is that such a thing exists, and that I have seen it.

[Anomalous_Reading]

Tangent and reprieve from the infighting…

This school… is just down the road from me. Same school district. It’s a good school.

Y’know… I really tried to get into and stay in a school district that wouldn’t have this sort of thing - at all. Jena 6 or otherwise. It really is a good school. It pisses me off beyond words that my kids will be going to some of the same school(s).

There’s a high school orientation tonight… and I have the jitters.

I didn’t like the way this went down in Louisiana. I stand by that. I also don’t think this guy belongs in the ‘regular’ high school system. There are options. They need to be exercised if they haven’t already.

[Shodan]

@mhendo

I guess if you could demonstrate anyone in this thread denying that, you might have a point. I thought, from your previous post, that you might actually grasp the issues involved here; now i’m not so sure.

ascenray said that this -

people rallied behind the lowest-common-denominator petty thugs

was “completely untrue” and it was all in his imagination. So there’s one who denied it. He also denied that they were ‘thuggin’ it up" at the BET awards show. So that’s two denials.

I fully understand the issues involved. The black community rallied behind a common thug because he was a black common thug. And he has continued to act thuggish.

And many of the Doper community are eager to derail any discussion of these facts with accusations of racist motives.

Business as usual, IOW.

Regards,
Shodan

[mhendo]

@Shodan

ascenray said that this - was “completely untrue” and it was all in his imagination. So there’s one who denied it. He also denied that they were ‘thuggin’ it up" at the BET awards show. So that’s two denials.

Bullshit.

He was responding to the totality of the post, which completely misrepresented the whole Jena situation and the main reasons behind it. As you continue to do now, to your discredit.

@Shodan

I fully understand the issues involved. The black community rallied behind a common thug because he was a black common thug. And he has continued to act thuggish.

You are a dribbling fucking moron. It’s amazing that you are happy to criticize the people who stood by the Jena 6 for allegedly racist motives, yet are apparently happy to blithely dismiss the very real issues of equal justice that made the case such a touchstone for community and national anger.

@Shodan

And many of the Doper community are eager to derail any discussion of these facts with accusations of racist motives.

Business as usual, IOW.

Regards,
Shodan

God, but you’re a stupid cunt.

The question is not whether any or all of the Jena 6 are thugs. Clearly the person mentioned in the OP is. I don’t know what the others have been up to lately. But, as Bricker said:

@Bricker

The problem arose when the perpetrators of aggravated battery were charged with attempted murder, despite the lack of any evidence to support all the elements of that charge.

Thugs they are – but surely you agree that thugs are equally entitled to fair treatment at the hands of our criminal justice system, yes?

It’s not even clear that you disagree with this argument. Rather, it appears that the actual issue is completely beside the point for you, and that you don’t even care to consider the issues of justice and equity involved in the case.

You’re beneath contempt. A pathetic abortion of a human being.

[descamisado]

@Shodan

I fully understand the issues involved. The black community rallied behind a common thug because he was a black common thug. And he has continued to act thuggish.

And many of the Doper community are eager to derail any discussion of these facts with accusations of racist motives.

Business as usual, IOW.

Regards,
Shodan

Quite clever how you tried to cut off the discussion by your second to last sentence. Won’t work here.

1. Many more than the “black community” (whatever that means in described numerous Blacks who came to rally in Jena from all over the country. Many whites and others also joined the rally.

2. Hardly anybody who did any real analysis of the actual facts in the case supported them because they were black; the majority of the supporters came together because they were blacks who were being railroaded in a miscarriage of justice.

So, you really don’t under the issues at all, but good call on invoking the phrases “racist motives” and “business as usual.” They fit well here, just not in the way you thought.

[descamisado]

@Shodan

I fully understand the issues involved. The black community rallied behind a common thug because he was a black common thug. And he has continued to act thuggish.

And many of the Doper community are eager to derail any discussion of these facts with accusations of racist motives.

Business as usual, IOW.

Regards,
Shodan

Quite clever how you tried to cut off the discussion by your second to last sentence. Won’t work here.

1. Many more than the “black community” (whatever that means in describing numerous Blacks of all ethnic, geographic and cultural backgrounds who came to rally in Jena from all over the country. Many whites and other groups also joined the rally.

2. Hardly anybody who did any real analysis of the actual facts in the case supported them because they were black; the majority of the supporters came together because they were blacks who were being railroaded in a miscarriage of justice.

So, you really don’t under the issues at all, but good call on invoking the phrases “racist motives” and “business as usual.” They fit well here, just not in the way you thought.

[descamisado]

deleted.

[Acsenray]

@Shodan

The rest of what stuff?

Your conclusion about the public mind. That’s what you’re deluded about. No one “rallied” behind them because they believed they were paragons of virtue. They rallied behind them because the charge of attempted murder was patently ridiculous. Being a “petty thug” doesn’t give other people license to do whatever they want to you.

I think it is a little naive to assert that they got support merely because they were unjustly charged. They got support because they were black, and they attacked a white kid.

Ohhhhhh. … Oh, I get it now. Thanks for the tip-off, Shodan. I thought I might be missing something.

[TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW]

This

@wikipedia

On December 4, 2006 17-year-old Justin Barker, a white Jena High School student, was assaulted at school by a group of black students. According to court documents based on eyewitness testimony and the school and police investigations, someone hit Barker from behind, knocking him out, and then others began to kick and stomp him.[27]

Superintendent Breithaupt stated that the attack was no ordinary schoolyard fight. “It was a premeditated ambush and attack by six students against one,” Breithaupt said. “The victim attacked was beaten and kicked into a state of bloody unconsciousness.”[28]

sounds like attempted murder to me.