I understand that there are individuals who strongly believe that Jesus did not die on the cross. They believe that he married Mary Magdeline, had children and moved to the south of France. This was to have created a bloodline that is believed to continue today. Is there any historical evidence that this may be in any way true?
Excluding the New Testament, there is only a bare minimum of proof that anyone named Jesus ever lived, and no historical record that he may have moved to France.
How would an itinerant Jewish preacher and sometimes carpenter and his ex-prostitute wife manage to get across the Mediterranean to the other end of the Roman Empire?
Some theologians believe that “Mary Magadlene” was a composite of several women who played a role in Jesus’ ministry at various times and was a literary composite, not a real person.
This is a very real conspiracy theory. The name of the town is Rennes Le Chateau (apologies for no accent marks).
We can of course elaborate further, as many are wont to do. Somewhere in Rennes Le Chateaux there are authentic genealogical charts tracing the Knights Templar and the Free Masons back to Jesus himself. Sometime in the late 19th century, a priest known as Bérenger Saunière discovered them, and blackmailed the Catholic church into giving him lots of money to keep it a secret (for obvious reasons). Or he found the treasure of the Knights Templar. Or something to do with the Merogivians. Or the Visigoths. More information than you’ll ever want to know can be found on the web by typing in Rennes Le Chateau or Bérenger Saunière.
“The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail” by Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln, elaborates on the ‘Jesus lineage’ theory at great length, with what appears to be a wealth of historical study and fact-finding. If there are any historical clues supporting this theory, you’ll find them in this book.
IMHO, I didn’t find that their case stood up at all well, and I’m not aware that this ‘controversy’ rages all that wildly any more. But the book sold a lot of copies. It is a good read if you like historical mysteries OR if you like studying books devoted to less-than-well-founded theories, and observing the various rhetorical and literary devices by which the authors try to build a silk purse conclusion out of pig’s ear evidence. Anything by Graham Hancock, Lyall Watson or UFO enthusiasts will afford similar pleasure and amusement.
I’m no expert, but I don’t beleive that the Bible states that the prostitute and Mary M. are the same person. It is just assumed.
Anyway why wouldn’t he be married? (even if it wasn’t to Mary M.) He was a human and I don’t remember anything about celebicy in the Gospels. That would come later, even Mary his mother wasn’t a virgin (If you notice it says something to the effect, that they didn’t have relations until after Jesus was born).
Doesn’t it say something in the Koran about Jesus faking his death? (this I’m not sure of, never read it and don’t even know how to spell it.)
The crack about the ex-prostitute wife was intended to show that neither of them would have had the funds to undertake such a lengthy and expensive journey.
I don’t necessarily believe the Bible is inerrant or factual, However, it gives me no evidence that Jesus was married. The Gospels refer to Peter as having a wife, so the issue of marriage must have been relevant in at least some context. The Gospels also make mention of Jesus’ mother at several times during his adult life, so we must assume that she played a continuing role in his life. And yet at no occasion where Mary is mentioned, or at any other point in the Gospels or the other books that mention Jesus’ life, is there any mention of a wife.
I realize I am attempting to prove something from a lack of evidence, and it can’t really withstand intellectual scrutiny, but “why wouldn’t he be married?” is not exactly conclusive evidence, either.
Well, since you asked, in the movie while Jesus is up on the cross Satan tempts him by showing him what his life could be like if he got down off the cross. In the temptation he marries Mary and they live in Israel. Jesus refuses this temptation and dies on the cross. The author Niko Katzanzakas(sp) is a Greek Orthodox Christian, and wrote the book to explore the humanity of Jesus.
Also, kunilou, I do agree with you. My post wasn’t even necessarily directed at you but at people who read the bible, believe it all, but also forget about the parts they choose to. Anything written hundreds of years after the fact is not going to be at all accurate. Look how little we know about Scott Joplin and he died in 1917. There probably never will be any definite historical proof, either for or against Jesus on the cross or Jesus laughing his way to France. (or to visit the Native Americans??)
Also, kunilou, I do agree with you. My post wasn’t even necessarily directed at you but at people who read the bible, believe it all, but also forget about the parts they choose to. Anything written hundreds of years after the fact is not going to be at all accurate. Look how little we know about Scott Joplin and he died in 1917. There probably never will be any definite historical proof, either for or against Jesus on the cross or Jesus laughing his way to France. (or to visit the Native Americans??)
As to the OP, there is some documentary evidence, but it is a couple hundred years after the fact.
FWIW, the Nag Hammadi texts, also called the Gnostic Gospels, do in fact say explicitly that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene.
Sorry I don’t remember which of them say so, I read them ummm fifteen or so years ago. I don’t own a copy, darn it.
There is, of course, the expected amount of controversy about their authenticity. IIRC, the Gnostics were wiped out by the Pauline Church…disremeber exactly when. The Gnostic belief of a direct relationship with God (no priestly class) was perceived as a direct threat to the Church.
However, while “Holy Blood, Holy Grail” was pretty good, I had (and still have) reservations. Especially after reading the sequel. However, if you like conspiracy/mystery novels, they’re just the thing. They hit all the high points, the Freemasons, the Rosicrucians, and I think they even dragged out the Illuminati.
I know this is going to come down to an issue of interpretation, but I would read this as stating that Jesus was born of a virgin, that the purpose is to assure the reader that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Spirit and not Mary’s relationship with Joseph. Matthew have may assumed that the spouses then consummated their marriage (this would have been what was expected, naturally) but I believe the link above is consistent in explaining the predestined unique role of Mary as ever-virgin mother.
Disclaimer: I haven’t seen the movie, but what I’ve heard coincides with what you’ve said here. I was discussing this recently and was told that the movie was good in the sense that Jesus’s human side was shown. Yes, I’m sure Jesus realized He could have come down from the Cross as he was goaded about doing, so human temptation existed. And yet, if Jesus was portrayed as fantasizing about sex with Mary Magdalene, it was blasphemous, as Jesus never sinned. I got only blank looks at this.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t the Gnostics reject the idea that Jesus was true God and true man? This would call a lot of their beliefs into question, and not for political reasons.
“My aunt did not once get into a mosh pit til the day she died.”
This sentence does not mean that my aunt is currently in Heaven slam dancing as Kurt Cobain sings. It means she didn’t do this act to a certain point. What that Bible quote is saying is that Mary was a virgin when she bore Jesus. Joseph was not and could not be the father. It makes no comment on what she did afterward, either pro or con. As for the “first-born son” thing, it does not imply that there were other children–a first-born son had certain legal rights and a status within the society that Matthew was trying to point out.
No, she didn’t. Brethren in this situation can mean kin of almost any sort, including cousins. It is possible that Joseph had been widowed before he was betrothed to Mary and the “brethren” of Jesus would have been his step-brothers. That actually makes sense in the context of the stories in which Jesus’ kin think he’s insane–in that society younger brothers and sisters would never have contradicted a first-born son like that, but older sibs would have. Joseph’s children would have been older than Jesus, and would have felt like they could get away with that sort of thing.
On the cross, Jesus gave his mother to John, saying “your mother” and to Mary “Woman, your son.” The disciples that Protestants say were Jesus’ brothers had not yet been martyred. If Jesus had been giving his mother to another disciple while she had living children, he would have been forcing them to not obey the commandment to honor one’s father and mother and therefore would have been encouraging sin.
This is a bit off topic, but you might enjoy Richard Shindell’s song The Ballad of Mary Magdalene. The lyrics (and chords) are here. I haven’t heard Shindell’s recording of the song, but Dar Williams does a nice job of it on the album Cry Cry Cry.
The song can be interpreted to imply that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were lovers, at least.