Jesus is God?

Great Debates
61

I think you misunderstand me, Artimeus. I’m an agnostic. I don’t believe in miracles or resurrections or the divinity of Jesus. I’m just telling you that from an empirical historical standpoint it’s almost impossible to know anything about Jesus. The Jesus Seminar has concluded that about all that can be known with any certainty is that he was baptized by John the Baptist and crucified under Pilate.

I’ve spent a lot of years trying to research historical Jesus and reading any and all theories but the frustrating truth is that there simply isn’t anything which can be known with any certainty.

An ecstatic mystic is one who can attain ecstatic states of mind through mystic techniiques. Ecstatics are often very charismatic and have a commanding personal presence. This kind of mysticism has quite a tradition in (but is by no means limited to) India. Anecdotally it is said that merely being in the presence of one who is in this state of Samadhi can inspire altered or ecstatic states in others.

Elizabeth Clare Prophet is kind of a whack-job, btw. She propounds a number of supernatural claims, including reincarnation and predictive prophesy. In 1990 she predicted that the Soviet Union would launch a nuclear assault on the US. Obviously, we’re still here.

Prophet’s cult (Church Universal and Triumphant) is basically a variation of the Theosophical movement around the turn of the century. It’s also a doomsday cult which has been known to stockpile weapons ala the Branch Davidians.

The CUaT has had numerous problems with the state of Montana over varius issues including environmental pollution from underground fuel tanks, tax fraud, and abuse and extortion of its members.

I’m sorry but Prophet is not a credible historical authority. Try the authors I mentioned before. They’re actually college professors with relevant PHDs not cult leaders.

62

Good point Captain. This echoes Buddha saying that the root of all unhappiness are our desires. That the secret is to desire what you already have (no matter what that might be).

63

Diogenes,

For whatever it is worth to you, the book is endorsed by a PhD Anthropology professor at California State University. He says, “The research was not only thorough and accurate, but very, very, careful.” Was he paid to say that? Could’ve been. Also, she’s merely capitalizing on the research of 3 other scholars and reporting it. She may indeed be a “whack job” but so far I’ve seen nothing to indicate that.

At least we agree on Jesus. I’m a little more open-minded, IMO, and willing to make some concessions for the fundies and TB’s. I guess it just never ceases to amaze me what they are willing to believe, hook, line, and sinker.

64

Artemius, life does suck, a lot of the time, and I owe you too an apology for my snitty attitude towards you. We agree far more than may be apparent from my posts to date – I am a seeker after truth, wherever it may be found, whose life experiences have convinced me of the reality of the message of Jesus. That does not mean that I buy into every miracle story nor that I reject the scholarship that finds myth, legend, and apocalyptic in the Bible. And one of my own sore spots is that my claiming to be a Christian means to many people that I am therefore claiming to be a brain-dead fundamentalist who will swallow any insanity because it is taught by some joker to be in the Bible conceived of as a document dictated verbatim by God. That’s not what I think, and it pisses me off when people assume it.

I’m looking forward to more interesting discussions with you, now that we have a handle on each other’s perspectives. Peace?

65

Yes. Peace