I don’t know, I mean JC is a pacifist. Here’s a guy who passively allowed himself to be cruxified (sp?). How do you expect him to win? Do you really think he’d fight back?
I think not.
Nope, it’s the IPU all the way.
Getting back to the original question, I’m not a frequent poster so I don’t know who the hell the IPU is, but in a fight, Jesus is all-knowing so invisibility would be useless (pink or otherwise) because He would know where the IPU is anyway. Jesus’ all-powerfulness would then give Him the strength and perseverence to wear pony-boy down and nail on them shoes.
You think Springer will have IPU and JC on after the bout? Or will CBS interview them after they get kicked off the isla… never mind! 
Esprix
Okay, but you really should get SD to change this on the entry page:
Great Debates
For long-running discussions of the great questions of our time. This is also the place for religious debates and (if you feel you must) witnessing.
MrMcPlad wrote:
Even if that’s the case, it’s still possible for someone who sins to get into Heaven, right? Admittedly, your standards are pretty high. They have to repent of their sins, and obey the commandments, and get baptized. Undoubtedly, this is a mighty select group. But even so, it does include at least some members who are not “the kind of people who will not sin.”
Ergo, there are going to be some people in Heaven who will, once in a great while, commit a sin or two.
Unless their ability to sin had been taken away from them. Which would mean they would no longer have free will, since free will always carries with it the capacity to sin.
Hey, I think I figured out how to get my posts to switch into a Times Roman font in Netscape! Just post a {/B} directive with no preceding {B} directive. Like this:
This is in the normal sans-serif font.
**This is in a Times Roman font.
[Moderator Hat: ON]
Moe said:
Wrong. This is specifically where these types of religious debates belong, as Libertarian noted.
Please leave the moderating to the moderators. If you have a question, suggestion, or problem, please e-mail the moderators (best to e-mail both if there are two in a given forum, that way you can get the quickest answer).
Thanks.
David B, SDMB Great Debates Moderator
[Moderator Hat: OFF]
And with these few, I trust God will deal justly with them. Or, even better, they will feel so guilty in God’s presence that they would rather be in Hell. I know I would never even want to sin around one so powerful.
Let me throw out the idea that one cannot sin in heaven because there are no rules there. Here on earth, if we do not obey God’s command, then it is a sin. But what if God has no commandments in heaven?
What about cruelty, malice, jealousy and hatred? Are those OK in heaven if God doesn’t explicitly say they are not? I don’t think your new suggestion is a good one. Yes, some people do think explicit cruelty to another is only a sin because God says it is, but I think most people hope that a good person wouldn’t be cruel to others even if God says it is A-OK. (Well, let’s conviniently ignore Joshua 10:40, et al for now 
) If there is no sin in heaven only because God has decided that hatred and cruelty are not a sin, it’s not really saying much–if they are not a sin, you could be a complete bastard in heaven and be thought just as good as anyone else. A loving person would be considered no better than a cruel one; the choice to love someone or loathe them would be as value-neutral as the choice between wearing a red shirt and wearing a blue one. Do you think that sounds like heaven to you?
Tut tut - never wager when you don’t even know the contestants (unless, of course, you wish to wager with me ;)). Information on the IPU (bless Her unshod hooves!) can be found through links elsewhere in this thread. One of the points you’re missing is that She, also, is all-powerful - hence the reason for the match in the first place; they’re equals. (And SHE is most assuredly not a “pony-boy” - speak ye blasphemy!)
Esprix
Esprix, after looking at the link posted back on page 1 I still don’t know what the hell the IPU is except the figment of someone’s imagination. And it just said that the IPU was very powerful, not all-powerful. But even if she is, I still bet on Jesus due to his bad-ass nature. This is a guy who blasted a fig tree to cinders with a look just because the fruit wasn’t ripe. And if you count His actions as Jehovah, look out. He once sent a couple of bears to devour a bunch of little kids just because they made fun of the prophet Elisha’s bald head. My favorite example of God’s appetite for destruction, however, was an earthquake that hit Lisbon, Portugal in the middle ages on the morning of Easter Sunday. All the cathedrals collapsed crushing His worshipers, while the red light district was untouched. I guess He has a thing for irony, too. Anyway, in the face of such a bloodthirsty opponent the IPU wouldn’t stand a chance.
And by the way, unicorns are traditionally male, as evidenced by that big honking phallic symbol sticking out of their heads.
Point taken and agreed with.
However, when I wrote that suggestion I was thinking more along the lines of the honor system, where one tries not to offend God (or any others), but there isn’t necessarily a punishment for those who make a mistake.
This sort of thing would only work for people who belong in heaven (i.e. “the kind of people who will not sin”), not those who would try to beat the system.
The problem with the honor system is that you were saying there is no sin in heaven. Now, if cruelty is not a sin in heaven, you cannot say it is wrong (I am assuming here that you think “right” and “wrong” correspond with “not sinful” and “sinful”), therefore there is no reason why a person should refrain from being cruel–it’s just as “good” as being loving. It’s not a matter of “beating the system”–if neither cruelty nor love are “wrong”, why on earth would someone refrain from either? If cruelty is still a sin, you are simply saying, yes, there is sin in heaven but people just punished for it, which seems to contradict your belief that there is no sin in heaven. Nor does it seem like a really great idea to me that if you’re basically good (and accept Christ, etc.) while you’re alive you can be as nasty as you like after death without punishment, while if you are basically nasty before you die, you can’t ever escape hell no matter how much good you do afterwards. (I assume we have free will to do either good or evil in hell, too, unless God takes that away before he tosses us into hell.) Now, you can argue that the people allowed in heaven generally won’t sin and the people sent to hell usually will sin, but a few of those in heaven will sin and a few of those in hell will do good. What of the people in heaven harmed by the cruelty of others there; is this heaven to them, to never see justice for the harm done to them?
Also, another point: one of the things about free will is that one can choose between doing good or doing evil. Just because a person has been evil all their life, that does not mean they are not free to change and do good, nor does it mean that a good person will never turn to evil. It is rare that a person will be evil for a long period of time and then become good, or that a person who is good for a long period of time will become evil, but it can happen–otherwise we should give up all attempts at reformation of long-term evil people, since they can’t change. Punishment of long-term evil people would be iffy, too–if they can’t become good, why should we punish them for doing evil; they can’t help it. Nor can we praise long-term do-gooders for their current good actions; if they can’t become evil, there seems little merit in not doing so. Therefore, let’s accept that people can change from good to evil and evil to good even after a long time as one or the other. Now, if God does not allow them the ability to do so, I would argue that He has taken a significant portion of their free will away. If they do have the ability to do so, presumably some will. You will then have good people in hell, and evil people in heaven. Unless God can elevate already-damned people to heaven, and send people in heaven to hell, this does not seem fair.
“A turn of events while we were on break, folks. The IPU threw a bucket full of irony out into the audience and, well, some folks just weren’t able to catch it. Fortunately, the arena’s IMT’s (Irony/Moronic Technicians) were on hand to help out those who were floored by the carnage…”
Well, we all gotta “root root root” for the home team, eh? :rolleyes:
Obviously you don’t know much about mythology, nor did you read the IPU (bless Her holy hooves!) links very closely, so let me know when you’re ready to make that wager, suck… er, I mean, friend.
Esprix
MrMcPlad wrote:
So there can be sin in Heaven, then?
I was gonna bring up the Lucifer-getting-kicked-out-of-heaven story, until I remembered that it doesn’t appear in the bible.
Intimidated by big, powerful bullies, eh?
Woo hoo! Free-for-all upstairs! I’m gonna go commit adultery every day, steal from my neighbors, stop believing in Jesus, have other gods before the Lord, and not show up for Sunday services!
Getting back to the OP:
Honestly, I don’t think either Jesus or the Invisible Pink Unicorn would stand a chance against The Giant Mutant Star Goat.
I apologize and stand corrected. It just seemed to me that you can’t expect much of a debate when people bring personal convictions into it. However, this is indeed the correct forum, so thank you MrMcPlad for sharing your personal convictions with us.
Okay, I admit…I don’t know the answer. Whatever I come up with has flaw after flaw in it. I’m sure that God has already thought of the solution, so I don’t need to worry about it. I only offered what seemingly plausible solutions that my feeble brain could come up with. The real question is…will the IPU go to heaven (She’s omnipotent, powerful, and pink), or will she go to hell (She’s a false god, an idol to detract from the worship of God)?
Now this is a catch-all counterargument I’ve never heard before. “My religion may look like it has logical contradictions in it, but in reality, God has secret plans to plug up every one of these loopholes.”
She won’t “go” to either place. She is immortal. You can’t go to heaven or hell if you’re not dead.