Looks like the Catholic Church is ready to dispel some myths. Perhaps they have finally realized that fighting ignorance is better than promoting it. Among the new revelations:
I think they probably left a few out. Some things having to do with magic people and mythological gods being works of fiction. Baby steps, I guess.
DaLovin’ Dj
Hmmm…It also says that David did not kill Goliath. I would like to know what their sources were. It’s one thing to say we shouldn’t take the Bible too literally, it’s another to make positive assertions (i.e. "Jesus lived into his forties).
I’m definitely intrigued. I’d like to learn some more about this.
“Paul did not fall off his horse on the way to Damascus”? How the hell can they prove that?
So where are the sources for some of this information? The article says nothing about how they figured it out.
Jesus not born on December 25–check. No big surprise there, most people know that.
Jesus probably short (by modern-day standards, anyway) and not particularly handsome–check. Most people back then would fit that description–and Isaiah prophesies it to boot.
Where do the other ones come from? What extra writings do we have about Jesus’ birth that contradict the manger part? I think most people know that the traditional creche scene is fiction; it’s just a convenient and pretty way to depict it. But what sources say that Joseph was an architect, or that Jesus was 40 at death (and so what?)? What makes them more reliable? And why would any of that be a big shock to faithful people?
I’m gonna need some more concrete citations here.
The “Joseph as archetect” part comes from Crossen, I think. He argues that the term “carpenter” in a first century Roman contextshouldn’t be understood as a modern carpenter would be, but instead, as a kind of craftsman.
As for the “David didn’t kill Goliath” part, the story of Goliath is mentioned twice in the bible. In Samuel, the “David kills Goliath” story is told. In the book of Chronicles, though, there’s a reference to “Elhanan son of Jair”, who, the text said, "killed Goliath the Gittite, who had a spear with a shaft like a weaver’s rod. "
Traditionally, to clear up the contradiction, people have added “the brother of” to the passage, to make Elhanan kill the brother of Goliath, instead of Goliath himself. A lot of scholars now, though, say that the “David killing Goliath” story in Samuel is more a case of the book wanting to make David do great things, so the writer credited the death of Goliath to him.
He may not have gorgeous, but man! What great abs.
From the link:
So this is not an official “Vatican” position. Some things they probably got right, some wrong, but this hardly counts as some great “change” from Rome.
DJ
First of all, I can’t find anything about the alleged book anywhere, except on two or three nutcase sites, and they all have plagiarized each other word for word. Interestingly, one of them warns: “Independent Online is a wholly owned subsidiary of Independent News & Media. Reliance on the information this site contains is at your own risk.” 
Second, I think you (and the other kooks) have misunderstood what’s going on with that sort of thing. It’s nothing new. People are always pointing out things like the fact that there weren’t three wise men. The number is never mentioned. If the book does exist, it is likely dispelling myths perpetrated about the Bible, not in it.
And third, I just want to acknowledge that you at least gave a cite this time. A good baby step for you.
LOL, that explains a lot about why Jesus died a virgin. Ugly Indeed!
You poor child. Dorkusmalorkusmafia? Does it hurt when you think?
A note to the wise–
You need to be careful when something is cited as “coming from the Vatican.” There’s a number of committees and sub-committees within the Vatican which, while they may speak with some delegated authority, don’t necessarily have the final word on things.
I notice the article specifically mentions that this came from the Vatican’s cultural committee, which furthers my suspicion that these statement’s aren’t meant to be theologically binding.
What Lib said–I can’t find anything other than the press release, no info on what their sources were.
The Avvenire is an Italian Catholic newspaper.
I doubt if the book is as “fringe” as it might sound at first, but I’d still like to know where they got the “Joseph was an architect” and “Jesus died at age 40” things.
FWIW, I put “how old was jesus” into Google, and up came a guy named Irenaeus. Anybody wanna go read it, see if it makes sense?
http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a38.htm
And there’s other stuff on the web–apparently the “3 1/2 years” length of Jesus’ ministry is not as carved in stone as my Sunday School teacher materials would have me believe.
But anyway, what difference does it make if Jesus lived to be 40 or 50? It’s not like there was some prophecy that would fail to be fulfilled if he lived longer.
I still can’t find anyone who sells the alleged book.
Correct in that a true carpenter would not be bad off. However, my understanding (and it could very well be wrong) is that when the Bible says “carpenter” a more correct translation is “handyman.” Which puts Joe back in the gutter.
It’s possible it’s not an amazon.com “book” as such, but more of a “pamphlet”, if it was written specifically for this newspaper.
Oh, and, the “Jesus was ugly” thing is not new–I was told it in Sunday School myself.
From Isaiah 53, the “Messiah” chapter:
Anyone speak Italian? The cites refer to a paper published by bishops:
This is the source of the article and the commisioners of the book as I understand. Anyone know of this publication’s (Avvenire) reputation? Anyone fluent in Itallian care to find and read the original article on that website? Perhaps it indicates where one could find this book or a list of sources. I definately don’t speak any foreign languages so I can’t do it. The articles did refer to the book as being Vatican backed. If it isn’t I’m sure it won’t take long for the vatican to complain. Maybe someone should send an e-mail. I would love to know the sources for myself.
And, Lib, I could cite that there is a god named Zeus who throws thunder bolts, but that would be as useless as when you cite the Bible, for all it would prove. Everything I have stated I have shown cites for. I never once stated that what they said was true, only that it had been said. I never said they had to be right, only that they were making an effort to dispell percieved false myths. It seems they are. It has been stated that they are backed by the Vatican. If you want to attack their efforts knock yourself out, but don’t imply that I take this to be incapable of being wrong or even well supported. I don’t. I’ll hold back judgement on the credibility until I’ve read the book, although you seem to have already passed judgement and have resorted to insulting people in GD (kooks indeed - only one of us believes in magic).
DaLovin’ Dj
Ah, my bad, DJ. I had you confused with someone who understood that assertions made in Great Debates require solid support either by reliable citation or logic.
I see that you were just witnessing
Duck
Thanks for putting out the straight dope on this. Looks like there’s nothing to see here.
Nope. What assertions did I make that were not supported?
DaLovin’ Dj
Well, which is it?
A. “…but don’t imply that I take this to be incapable of being wrong or even well supported. I don’t.”
or
B. “Nope. What assertions did I make that were not supported?”
The difference is that I said " ‘Jesus was short and unattractive’ says Vatican backed publication" which is supported by many websites. The correctness of the authors conclusions is up for debate (that is why I put it here) and we will need to read the book and see their sources to make an educated decision. So these two statements by me are not contradictory. I’ll grant that the authors may very well be incorrect. The only assertion that I made was that such a book was reportedly made and supported by the Vatican.
You like the smoke and mirrors, huh? False accusations and such? Read what I say and you may get alot further and waste alot less time. There are quite a few reports in many different languages that would seem to indicate that such a book has been published in Italy. The paper mentioned exists. The member of the Vatican exists. The validity of the books assumptions are up for debate, and I never said that those assumptions were correct. As usual you make foolish assumptions, throw some insults, and add a couple of condescending statements. Always a pleasure.
DaLovin’ Dj