When he was first rising to power, were there any Jews who supported him? Were there any Jewish people who became or tried to become Nazis?
Interesting question; I’d like to know, too. But how would that have been possible? They wouldn’t have been allowed in the club, period.
You might want to check out The Transfer Agreement by Edwin Black. He describes how some Jews didn’t support Hitler, but did feel they could work with him to some extent. Their argument was that open demostrations against Hitler would only serve as an excuse for increased anti-semitic programs, while a willingness to quietly negotiate might reduce these programs.
Be advised that some people have denounced this book. They oppose the suggestion that any Jews would have worked with the Nazis under any circumstances. (The author, Edwin Black, is Jewish and both of his parents survived the concentration camps.)
The Nazi’s had extensive rules for citizenship based on Jewish background. If you had more than an 1/8th from your mother’s side, you could only be a certain type of citizen, and stuff like that. I’ve got the chart downstairs, I could scan it in if you’re interested.
Well, according to this historical link, it was the Jews who first declared war on Germany during the 1930s.
[link deleted -manhattan]
Historical link?
It would be interesting to see a neutral presentation regarding the claims made in that story. I am sure that some of the details mentioned are accurate.
However, I have a bit of difficulty taking as pure truth the word of an outfit that portrays the “Jews of the world” as an enormous, monolithic block that marched in lockstep. (I also have difficulty in taking seriously any publishers who continue to push the ridiculous claims regarding The Wizard of Oz as Populist allegory.)
The article is also inconsistent in claiming that Hitler called for a boycott of German Jews in retaliation for a call by non-German Jews for boycott of German trade, while simultaneously claiming that the German Jews had protested the claims and actions of the Jews outside Germany. The article then goes on to claim that the actions of the non-German Jews prompted Hitler to wage war against the German Jews and, ultimately, to initiate WWII. (The author writes the article as if Hitler had never begun publishing pamphlets as early as 1919 claiming that the Jews needed to be “removed” from Europe or that Mein Kampf was not filled with anti-Jewish polemics. By a reading of this article, it would seem that a bunch of foreign Jews simply began libeling Hitler, compelling him to persecute their brethren and then wage war.)
As I noted, above, some of the events mentioned would indicate that this is an interesting period of history to investigate, but the article presented has so many problems of bias and broad-stroke characterization that it can hardly be regarded as a “historical link.”
Since history is written by people, and a history of a specific period or event is likely to be written by someone with a sharp interest and definite ideas about that period or event, a totally “neutral presentation” is pretty difficult to come by. (For example, read William Manchester’s widely-acclaimed The Glory and the Dream, a history of America before and during WWII, and you’ll start to believe that “God” is spelled F-D-R.) Having said that, I’ll agree that a more neutral presentation than the one cited is certainly acheivable.
As to the OP, I know of no particular Jews or Jewish organizations that actively supported Hitler or the Nazis during their rise to power. If pre-1933 Germany offered anything, it was a stunningly wide array of political parties from which to choose. The Nazi party was one of dozens that used anti-Semitism as a platform plank, but there were dozens of others that didn’t.
However, once Hitler became “Leader (Fuhrer of the German People,” his early efforts to consolidate control over Germany would probably have failed without some measure of cooperation (not necessarily support) on the part of a number of Jews within Germany. This is particularly true with regard to the stabilization of the currency and the economy as a whole, since Jews did, in fact, control a significant portion of the German banking structure at that time. (Temporarily, of course, as history shows.)
“Historical link”???
Um. No. You’re linking to a Holocaust denier’s site, and a particularly stupid one at that.
To name just one of the really, REALLY stupid articles they have, [link deleted - manhattan] where they actually have an article about how Concentration Camps like “Auschwitz, Dachau and Buchenwald” had NOTHING to do with death or extermination of Jews. Apparently, they were actually pretty much just jolly happy holiday camps where Jews and Germans worked joyfully together for Der Fuhrer und der war effort and Jews were even paid in special happy-dollars, fun-money that they could use in their Jewish stores in the Camps to buy luxuries that reg’lar German citizens didn’t have access to, and it could even be used in the “Jewish brothels”! Jeepers, what a FUN way to spend a summer or two! Who’d wanna leave? :rolleyes:
Still standing by your link as “historical”?
Fenris
The Barnes Review is run by the “Liberty Lobby”, whose main organizer is William Carto. Here’s what the Anti-Defamation League has to say about Carto and the Barnes Review:
Cite, please.
I didn’t even bother to read Hermann’s link as I doubt it is worth my currently limited bandwidth.
Some Jews, did to varying degrees support Hitler. One prominient example is a British Jew (he might of been half-Jewish, the source didn’t make it clear) who was executed for treason after WW2 for his suppport of Hitler. I forget his name, but his father was the author of the famous Balfour declaration (Not Lord Balfour, as you might of expected) and was a Jewish MP, who arrived as an immigrant from Hungary as a child. His father had gone to great lenghts to conceal his origins (such as anglicizing his name), so it is possible hat he might not of known his Jewish roots.
While one son became a virulent antisemite, which would eventually see him collabrate with Hitler, the other son became a prominent member of the zionist movement.
Also many soldiers in the Wercmacht and some rank and file members of the Nazi party had Jewish roots, which they may or may not of known about, being fully Germanicized by assimlation (there is a book about this, written by a reputable historian I hasten to add).
Also there were saome Jews who believed what Hitler said about Jews, applied only to the Ostjuden and recent Jewish immigrants from the east and not fully assimlated German Jews (I remeber seeing an interview with a German Jewish holocaust survior, who was a young boy when Hitler came to power in which he said that at the time he had believed Nazi propaganda about the OstJuden).
Hermann, you will keep that hateful, ignorance-perpetuating garbage off of this website. This is not a request. It is not negotiable. A repeat will get you tossed from here.
Manhattan, I’m not really taking issue with your modding, I think you do an excellent job overall, and I can understand your being upset at the intellectual vacancy of holocaust denial positions, but I wasn’t aware it was a banning offense to point to a net document link as evidence for or against a particular argument. I realize the user agreement pretty much lets you have absolute dominion over what is and is not permitted, but how are we going to rhetorically handle holocaust denial arguments like these unless we can see how they present themselves and dissect them?
MC, with all due respect, this doesn’t sound right to me, for a couple of reasons.
First, the Balfour Declaration was issued by Arthur Balfour in 1917, at that time the British Foreign Secretary. He wasn’t Lord Balfour at the time, becoming Earl of Balfour in 1922, according to this biography. The actual text of the declaration had been submitted to the Cabinet, presumably by the Foreign Office. Given the significance of the declaration, I would assume that it had been heavily debated and re-drafted within the F.O. before going to Cabinet, with several different individuals having input. I’d be surprised if any one individual could claim to have written it.
Second, according to this written answer in Question Period in the U.K. House of Commons, there was only one execution for treason after WWII in the U.K. That was William Joyce (a/k/a “Lord Haw-Haw”) who was of Irish extraction, not Hungarian:
To the best of my knowledge, neither Joyce nor his father were MPs.
Without links. Those guys ain’t getting any hits with the Chicago Reader as referrer as long as I have anything to say about it. Post the arguments, if one feels so compelled, but not the link.
John Amery, executed after pleading guilty to treason during WWII. His father, Leo Amery, was a Conservative MP who helped draft the Balfour declaration.
http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/amery_times.htm
You can Google the rest…
manhattan: I don’t think I’m reading between the lines here. Did you just say that you expect the Holocaust Deniers to actually think for themselves and post a legitimate and coherent support of their insanity?
manhattan: Would it be acceptable for Hermann Cheruscan to paste up the relevant web address, instead of including a link? That way, at least people wouldn’t be accessing the site from the Chicago Reader if this is the main concern.
No. No hits to those guys because of this website. None.
This issue is done in this thread. Any further discussion will be by email or in the Pit.
I stand corrected, mascaroni - thanks for the info.