Indeed. It’s a paraphrase of the running-gag description of the “continuum transfunctioner”, a mysterious and powerful device whose mystery is exceeded only by its power.
I suppose, but I’m not entirely sure about that, as it gets into semantics and such about what “arbitrary” means when applied to an entity that can create light itself just on His say-so.
I think it’s kind of a stupid bit of world-building myself, but then I’m standing on the shoulders of Tolkein, Clarke, Pratchett, etc., so I probably shouldn’t be too harsh on the myth-creating skills of ancient peoples. A lot of it is actually pretty clever, but it’s probably not a good idea to buy too much into it.
Acc. to the NT, IMO, “moral authority” is (at best) a thing of the past.
To more directly answer the OP, the only way I can make sense out of the idea that the commandments of a God could carry some kind of absolute authority (not to speak necessarily of “moral authority”) is this: the commandments are expressions of the good for us, according to what we essentially are.
That sounds like a version of “God’s moral authority comes from his wisdom” I think.
My off-the-cuff response is neither —it comes from the fact that he created everything, and therefore gave purpose to everything. That said, I’d have to think about it some more.
Purpose doesn’t come from creators, it comes from users.
But also himself. He IS the ultimate good. When you appeal to morality, to what is right or wrong, you appeal to God himself. Sans any other being, God would be quite perfectly good in and of himself.
What is the initial “but” abutted against?
Atheist, but just posting to note that this question was first posed (that we know of) by Plato in the Euthyphro.
The Torah sort of differentiates between mitzvot you do in regards to God and ones you do in regards to others. Both are important, but you can kind of draw a line between certain laws. Not stealing, for example, is in the ‘humanistic’ category, whereas ‘kosher’ is the ‘soul/identity/me & God’ category.
There is nothing inherently immoral about eating pork (though some argue there’s something immoral about eating animals, period…) In regards to things we do against each other - theft, murder, rape, whatever - it seems to be pretty universal to consider those actions immoral.
I suppose the answer is ‘both’. If God is all-powerful, he must know what makes us work properly.
CitizenPained:
The Torah only makes such distinctions as regards human understanding. It never suggests that G-d’s commandments that are in the “soul/identity/me” category are arbitrary from G-d’s perspective.
This is now provoking this thought…God has told us what is good and what is evil. And god is good. So evil is not god or against god or the opposite of god so wouldn’t moral authority just be God recognizing himself and that which opposes himself?
I know, but I also don’t care. I am specifically interested in what [del]Christians & Jews[/del] adherents of Abrahamic faiths think on the issue.
No, because evil has to come from God too. Nothing can exist or happen without God’s will.
Kosher has no universal moral significance. It’s just just a way for one group of people to keep a deal with God.
God can’t be harmed. so there can’t logically be any action “against” God.
No, I disagree that evil has to come from God. Unless you mean Satan. nothing exists apart from God’s will, agreed, but good and evil do not exist like God or you and me do. They exist as concepts, and God is good and not evil. At least that’s my understanding and that is who I worship, the creator, the perfect one. Some other gods are good and evil i understand that. But since you are asking for my opinion I am giving it based on the God that I believe in.
Now as far as evil incarnate in the form of Satan. Yes he did come from God, but God did not create him evil. He became evil when he equated himself to God. And I’m not sure if he is evil because God was offended by his uppitiness or because in equating himself with God, he was wrong, and therefore evil because God is right so the opposite of right would be the opposite of good and all that existential stuff.
but in anycase let’s please derail no further from the original poster’s purpose. I feel bad enough as it is that i contributed to the whole A and E branch. He is not asking the question of you I guess since it is directed at believers.
God knew Satan would be evil before he created him, so you can’t push evil off on Satan. God knew everything that satan would do beforehand. Moreover, Satan and all evil only continue to exist because God allows them to exist. God can make Satan vanish any time he feels like, but instead he feels like allowing Satan to inflict lots and lots of evil. Satan can only do God’s will. There is no way for Satan NOT to do God’s will.
You can’t separate evil from God, at least not from an omnimax God. Many have tried, none have succeeded.
Quoth Screwtape, a minion of the Devil:
“In the long run either Our Father Below [Satan] or the Enemy [God] will say ‘Mine’ of each thing that exists…At present the Enemy says ‘Mine’ on the pedantic, legalistic ground that He made it: Our Father plans in the end to say ‘Mine’ of all things on the more realistic and dynamic ground of conquest.”
For an analogy, maybe see Melkor’s attempt to inject discord into the music the Ainur were making for the benefit of their creator, Eru, at the beginning of the Silmarillion.
CS Lewis was as weak a hack as ever tried to apologize.
and Skald, I am really intrigued by your love of Athena. She was my favorite too in high school but I can’t remember why now.
Wow, you’re cranky today. Usually you can discern the point and address it intelligently, even if you don’t happen to like the messenger.