Job dilemma.

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1
  1. We were told on Dec 23rd that our department was made redundant and we would be out of a job by March.
  2. We have since been told that we have some open “life lines” and we would know by Jan 15 - then it was Jan 30. Now it is “Sometime in Feb.”
  3. I have been offered a job elsewhere by an ex-boss for considerably more money (More than 20% more.)
  4. My boss and his boss feel strongly that if I leave, the rest of the technical team will bolt. If we have no technical team, we have no product.
  5. Both would suport my decision to leave anyway.
  6. I owe a considerable amount of loyalty to my boss and his boss. They have been very good to me through some very hard times. More than I can ever hope to repay.
  7. My ex-boss had originally made his offer open-ended, but tonight said that there is a deadline and I will have to choose before March - and if he gets the contract that he just bid on I would have to choose before Feb.
  8. I really like my boss, his boss and my team. But my boss’ goals and mine continue to grow further apart.
  9. See number 6.

The truth is, the smart thing to do would be to go. But the decision is killing me anyway. I just don’t know what to do. :frowning:

Not really looking for advice. I just felt like venting a little.

2

Let me make it easy for you. You are talking so crazy that have a good mind to send an ambulance to your place right now. You are on a sinking ship and someone offers you a first class lifeboat and you decide the decision is a tough one? No, no, no. Business “loyalty” of that type only gets people hurt and it shouldn’t factor into your decision at all.

You owe simple decency to people. You don’t owe blind allegiance at your own peril. Be decent about setting the conditions around your last days at work at the old place and that is all you can do.

Congratulations and God speed at your new job.

3

Yep, bolt like your coworkers have turned into zombies.

4

Loyalty doesn’t pay the bills. Take the job.

5

I agree. After I read #3, I don’t see how there could be any decision to make. Why does it matter if the staff bolts, if the department is toast in March anyway? Seems like it would be better for everyone If you took the new job at the earliest convenience.

6

I’m with everyone else. See point 5. If both support your leaving anyway, then they clearly understand that you have to do what you have to do. Get the heck out of there!

GT

7

I would get a sheet of paper and write at the top - “Should I take this new job”.

Now draw aline down the middle of the sheet and write "YES’ above the left column and “NO” above the right column.

In the left column put:

Still have job after March.

Earn at least 20% more.

Work with boss who values my abilities.

Working for company that actively recruited me.
Hand this to your present boss with your resignation. Good luck this time around.

8

Absolutely. Bolt like their nuts, man.

9

I’ll take Door #3, Monty.

10

This is not *simple *business loyalty.

When my stomach was operated on in 03 and the sutures burst and things went *really *bad, my team was there for me. There wasn’t a *single *day when someone wasn’t in my room. I wasn’t alone a *single *day. When I went home for a long convelence, my boss and my team held meetings in my house so that I could continue to try to work. I was out of work for 3 months, but the job was there when I came back.

In June of 05 my stomach perferated and I nearly died. This is not hyperbole, I nearly died. I was out for 3 months and even now am still recovering. And the job was there when I came back and my team was there for me. My team - my entire team - was there for me every step of the way. Both the people who worked for me and the people I work for. When they saw that I had let my house fall into an unbelievable state of disrepair because I was that sick, they came and cleaned it, top to bottom. When I, previous to this, was waking up every night several times a night choking on my own vomit, they were there for me.

Every *single *hard road that I walked this past 2 1/2 years they walked with me. Giving me more support than any man has the right to expect.

And now, when the road is hard for all of us, and my boss thinks that my presence would help keep the team together for that last ditch effort, how can I so easily walk away? It is easy to mouth the words that I am grateful. Most people will pay lip service. I am not most people - and these people have earned my loyalty.

11

Khadaji I appreciate your sense of loyalty and understand how you feel in light of all your present employer has done for you. However, it doesn’t sound like you’ll have employment there after March, so you need to do what you know you have to do to maintain employment, insurance, other benefits, etc. Your current employer doesn’t appear to be using emotional blackmail (we were there for you, now you need to be there for us) much to their credit. They understand that you have to make a decision for your own well-being and future. You need to take this job offer for your own sake. If the others would leave because you did, (and I suppose this wouldn’t happen unless they have other employment opportunities) it would not be your fault. You are all on a sinking ship and all of you have to find other employment, so, of course they are all going to leave eventually whether you are there or not.

Take the job.

12

Ask your boss point-blank if he can guarantee that you will be employed in July. Six months is not much to ask for.

DeHusband recently changed jobs. After being with the same group for 10 years, he felt very disloyal for even looking for a new job. But the writing was on the wall. His job was being changed from Customer Service to Telemarketing. Management didn’t want to pay “large” salaries, so everyone with more than 2 years on the job were either being fazed out or fired. When he gave his 2 weeks notice, his boss said he was glad that DeHusband was leaving. Said he deserved to have a job where he was secure.

Your boss has unrealistic expectations that one person will stop the tide from turning. You are not the little dutch boy. You have no control over when or how other people will leave. Your team will leave as soon as they understand the gravity of the situation, whether you are there or not.

Take the job.

13

A little over two years ago, Bus Wife found herself in a similar predicament. A a large unnamed insurance company merged with hers and the downsizing started happening fast.

She saw departments get gutted, whole teams sent packing, some with no warning, just a visit from HR and a box to put their stuff in. She was lucky and worked on some accounting system that didn’t simply merge, it was going to take months to assimilate the old with the new.

She negotiated a contract to stay through July, '04 at the end of which she’d get a retention bouns on top of her severance. Sweet. Then in June '04 they said they needed her to stay. Ok, so let’s talk what my incentive is now she says. Well, this second time there’s not much more to offer, but she stays anyway with a verbal agreement to hang around, and some very generous work accommodations. They let her work from home 2-3 days a week, which saved her the hassle of a 3 hour commute (round trip).

Then in late '04, an ex co-worker who was now CFO of another insurance company says he wants to hire her. This guy started right after her at the first place and was one of the first to get cut. She considers him a little brother and he’s one of her best friends. He has no specific job for her but values her work and says they’ll find SOMETHING and starts talking in loose terms about 25% over what she makes now, plus generous bonuses, stock options, etc.

Now BW has a lot of friends at the old place left, some of whom she feels deeply indebted to both professionally, and personally. Her new boss is way out in CA and stays out of her way, lets her do her job and on top of it all, is a good friend.

Around the end of '04, her pal the CFO says we need to talk, and we need to make decisions. She gets a resume together, interviews with the honchos, and is offered a position they’re creating for her - to do AR work collecting past due premium payments from brokers in the field. Money they used to piss away in collections, they’ll collect in-house. She’s going to set up a real AR depertment, processes, the whole shebang.

She agonizes for days despite knowing that:

A) Her current job will be gone in 3 months, and then she’ll have to start looking.
B) There is not just a guarantee on the table, but a big increase.

She stands to lose significant severance by leaving instead of being let go, and hates to hurt her boss by taking off. It was hard for her emotionally, and she had moments of second thoughts, but now she’s in a situation she loves, being rewarded for her work and just last week attended the “last day” party for the last of her friends at the old place. It’s gutted now, she knows almost no one there and if she’d stayed, she’d have been out of work and looking for someone to hire a 45 year old with no diploma.

Between the salary bump, and the bonus she just recieved this week, all of the severance she missed out on by not staying to get laid off has been made up for, AND she got a decent raise with the new year as well.

Bonus: The new boss, her “little brother” controls the company’s White Sox tickets, 12 rows above the home dugout. And he appreciates that his Very Valuable AR Bitch (her unofficial title) has a husband that’s a huge Sox fan. I saw more of the last home stand from those seats than from home, and a playoff game.

Lesson: Loyalty is a wonderful thing, but your bosses will understand if you need to look out for your own interests. They’re making a business decision, they will respect that you are too.

14

Another vote for taking the job, now. Of course you should explain the situation to your boss and his boss and be apologetic, but I’m sure they’ll understand why you’re taking it. And as DeVena said, it’s not your responsibility to stick around so that the other people do as well. Most likely they’re job hunting anyhow. (And why does it matter that the technical team stick around if they’re being made redundant in a couple of months?)

15

Take the new job. Maintain your ties / friendship with the old bosses. They sound like they’d understand. Let them know how difficult a decision it is for you. If the new boss doesn’t get the contract he’s bid on maybe he can sell your services back to your former employer. If they really “made your group redundant” then they don’t need you anyway. Maybe this’ll learn the upper level muckity-mucks that made the initial decision. Maybe they’re right. Who knows? Anyway, the company (not your immediate supervisor(s)) have let you know how loyal they are.

16

Wow. I can understand your loyalty to your old team. What they did is very commendable, and it’s also commendable that you want to think of them first.

I think the question you need to be asking is this one: “How long?” How long will your continued presence keep the rest of the team from bolting? How long will your collective positions be there? How long until everyone’s downsized? How long will the company keep up your division while downsizing others? How long for all of it?

Only you can tell whether the answers you receive to that question are satisfactory for you.

Honestly, I think I’d leave. Your co-workers know that it’s a sinking ship and likely will leave whatever you do. I guarantee they’re looking. But you have valid reasons for staying, so long as you know how long you’ll be able to. Ask that question, then decide.