I’m certainly not an age-discrimination lawyer, but this isn’t quite true - age-discrimination laws (at the federal level at least) don’t protect anyone under 40, and even then have exceptions. Pilots are required to retire (or stop flying commercial airliners at any rate) at 60, many companies have mandatory retirement for execs, and companies under a certain size, 15 employees, I believe, are exempt.
With apologies for self-quoting, but I think it’s more clear if I do.
In Spain too. But in this case, the law in question was created as “positive discrimination law” to make inexperienced workers more attractive, as the young/recent graduates always make up a sizeable chunk of the unemployment/better-job-seekers lists. The idea was to make them more attractive, not to make the over-25 unattractive. Instead what happened is the creation of a new class of workers, often with low qualifications: veteran workers in low-qualification jobs got fired, people who leave school at 16-18 and take up waiting tables or bricklaying spend several years in the job and get fired on their 25th birthday.
The upside of this is that now over-25 students starting trade school or college aren’t viewed as “completely, amazingly incredible.”
Some employers require that as proof of degree. AIUI, some also use it as a tiebreaker – the guy with the 3.6 is going to get the job before the guy with the 3.5, all other things being equal. I’ve also heard that they want to see what kinds of courses you took and if you transferred anything and didn’t list the transferring schools, since if you’re hiding that, what else are you hiding?
Robin
Setting the maximum age (aka age ceiling) for a position as an engineer, such as a software engineer like me, at 25 would definitely discriminate against those over 40.
There has to be a compelling reason directly related to the ability to perform the duties of the job why an age ceiling is needed, such as a requirement that due to the nature of the job a person must not need glasses. Mandatory retirement age for commercial pilots in the US was slated as of January 2007 to be raised to 65.
While some companies seem to have made agreements with their highest level executives that they will retire at 65, it does not seem to be a hard and fast rule based upon my searching. I have also found examples of companies waiving the retirement clause in executive contracts if they find someone who they do want to keep working past age 65. The only other examples of mandatory retirement ages that I could find related to police officers, firefighters, and air traffic controllers.
Do you have any information regarding the practice of corporations forcing their executives to retire?
Also, as I recall, small enough companies may be exempt from many federal anti-discrimination and other employment laws, but I would be surprised if many of them find it good for business to be overtly discriminatory.
Can I download my own job hunting pitting here?
My husband applied for and got a job with a company I have worked for in the past. When he was talking to HR, he mentioned that I used to work there. They remembered me and asked what I was doing now. He advised I was on a contract job that finished in December. They said “Oh, get her to send her CV in!”
Great!
So I send in my CV. HR calls me on 4th December, we have a quick chat about why I left the company in the first place, and what I’m interested in. I’m advised there’s an Account Executive vacancy, get sent the job description and confirm back that it’s exactly the sort of thing I’m looking for. She says she’ll send my CV through for consideration.
I send a follow up email on 16th December, she replies on 17th December apologising for delay, they are busy with year end and will be recruiting in the New Year. Fine.
I send another follow up email on 16th January, wishing her a happy new year and following up on the job. No reply.
I send another today, following up on the follow up. I get an email back with:
"As an HR team, we have been waiting information for our xxxxx senior team about our vacancies in Q1 of 09.
We now only have AE positions at xxxxxxx (the xxxxxxx one is on hold) and we have been asked to recruit these on a temp basis at present.
I can forward your CV to my colleague at xxxxxxx if you are interested, but it will be temp for the foreseeable future."
Gah! I mean, I appreciate these are tough times and the job market is unchangeable, but it’s been a month and a half and now I’m looking at a temp job at best. Grrrr.
I have been told by several managers of areas that use temps that the ALWAYS say there is a chance for a full time job even if there isn’t.
Reason: They seem to work harder if they think they may be hired permanently.
Back in the dark days of the early 90’s there was a phenomenom that, I’m certain, will raise its ugly head soon.
The job market was so bad that companies wanted to be PAID to to allow you to apply. This would take of the form of a $50 ‘administration fee’ or the like. I had a family member call the local cable company job hotline that told him to send in a $150 administration fee and they would send him a job ap. (which would be good for future openings as well WHAT A DEAL!)
A friend of my father’s who worked for a larger company said that they constantly advertise positions that they had no intention of hiring because the $15 fees added up to some serious money.
It wasn’t all jobs…it was still a minority (probably <10%) but it WAS growing. Thankfully 1996 came around and the job market opened up very nicely.
I was strung along for one job for over three months before I was told I didn’t get it.
Three fucking months.
And now a job I applied to back in August and a phone interview for in September has sent me an email asking if I’m still interested. I’m guessing whoever they had lined up bailed on them and they’re going back to the other people they interviewed.
Don’t take it personally. Don’t go in with a chip on your shoulder.
Also, some companies, especially during recessions work slowly…sometimes VERY slowly. There may not even have been a first hire that bailed.
That’s the problem with searching for a job. You have nothing to do all day but wait while the hiring managers still have their jobs to do. At my old company, we would bring in candidates for a round of interviews. Then they had to meet with the Managing Director of the group. Except he would be so busy traveling or whatever it would take weeks to get him to meet the candidate. And then it would take him weeks to make a decision.
This one company called me in for a project management position. They told me on the phone that my resume looked like a great match for the position, and that I’d be talking to two people.
I get into the interview, looking forward to a good conversation about the position , thinking my chances are excellent.
My resume at the time didn’t list much more than rudimentary hands-on web production stuff - basic HTML, a smattering of javascript. You’d think that would have been OK, because no hands-on stuff was mentioned in the job description either.
The hiring manager, however, asks me detailed questions about how the back-end of my old company worked. I understood at the abstract level, but it wasn’t my job to be up to my neck in that.
Then she asks, “What methods of XML transformations are you familiar with? Do you use CSS or tables for your layout? Do you know PHP and SQL?” ad infinitum. All things that are reasonable to ask for in an applicant, but damned if it’s very polite to wait to ask until the fuckin’ interview.
I got even, though. I went out and learned all that stuff. Ha.
**What methods of XML transformations are you familiar with? **
Um…most of them.
**Do you use CSS or tables for your layout? **
When it’s appropriate.
Do you know PHP and SQL?
Assuming there are no follow up questions…yes.
I drove an hour to go to a job fair this morning. There were literally hundreds of people lined up to get into the thing. While we were standing in line, someone asked the person in charge of the fair how many companies were inside. The response was, “If you go to the website and register, you’ll be able to see a complete listing of the companies here.” Not a good sign, and when I got in there, there were approximately a dozen companies. Most of the jobs were in sales, and the bulk of them were straight commission. Not a single temp agency was present, and the non-sales job openings were limited to a single company, the Army, and the Border Patrol (at 40, I don’t think I’d be able to survive bootcamp, and my uncorrected vision isn’t good enough for me to be able to work for the Border Patrol).
I have now been unemployed for three months, despite sending out close to a dozen or more resumes a day, I have had exactly two interviews, and was told I was “over-qualified” for both jobs. I managed to surpress the urge to throttle the interviewers while screaming, “I’ve been unemployed for three months, you bastard! With this economy, I will not be going anywhere! Give me the job, you bastard!” I have no idea if I’ll be able to pay the electric bill before they cut the power this month, and I’m going to have to apply for foodstamps, since my $197/wk unemployment check is not cutting it.
Back when I was younger and left teaching I went to interviews and was routinely asked if I knew {some programming language}
Oh for the love of Pete, I didn’t but it would take me…oooo…2 hours to be competent. I was tired of answering no and not getting the job so I said yes.
You can bet I put in my 2 hours learning it awfully fast before the next interview 
I was actually hired once after calling about one of those ads! It turned out the employer was someone I already knew slightly, and was embarrassed at why he’d placed the ad, so he hired me anyway. The ad was for someone who knows lots of languages; they thought no one could meet that requirement… but they weren’t expecting me. 
Of course they’re hiring salesmen on straight commission - no cost to the employer, after all.
That’s because they can’t keep their current stables employed, much less take on new people. I used to rely on temp agencies for work, at one point I temped full time for nearly 10 years. I at least appreciate their honesty in telling me they have no work for me, but I find it quite disturbing to lose that fall back of mine.
I think at least one of the five organizations represented by the Pentagon take people as old as 41 (which still leave me too old) but yes, that business about vision can be a deal killer. Between my myopia and my non-standard color perception I couldn’t join the military even if I was 20.
I hate to scare anyone, but that’s been me… for fifteen months.
I haven’t been told I’m overqualified (yet) although once I was told I was “overspecialized” which is ridiculous (if you’re not going to give me work just say “we chose someone else”, don’t lie to me). I have had a grand total of FOUR interviews in fifteen months. Tomorrow I’m going to number five. That’s an average of one interview every three months, so if you’re doing two interviews every three months you’re getting them twice as often as me. Then again, I’m a middle-aged woman and we all know that sexism and ageism exists. Is that a factor? I haven’t a clue, but on a job site two weeks ago I was accused of “stealing” a job from a man in hard times. Wanted to punch Mr. Asshole in the nose, or at least drop the 12 foot pole I was carrying at the time on his foot (I was helping to repair a busted rafter) but I restrained myself.
Apply for foodstamps. Apply for any and all aid you think you MIGHT need. Don’t let your pride get in the way of your survival.
[del]Good luck![/del] May the very best of fortune shine upon you tomorrow, Broomstick.
Yes, we know.
Don’t thread-shit, bitch.
Well said.