Agreed. And citing “The Daily Show” to her isn’t likely to further your argument any, either.
Another point is that Kerry did not join Jane Fonda in protesting the Vietnam War. Kerry and Fonda both spoke at one protest (and possibly at others), but they never met personally until sometime in the 1990’s. There’s a picture of the two of them on the podium at this one protest, but they’re not sitting anywhere close to each other. In any case, this is guilt by association. The argument seems to be that Kerry and Fonda both protested the war so they must believe the same things. This is absurd.
Here’s an idea. Since she is convinced that even Snopes is a tool of the liberal media establishment, you’re going to have to start by pointing out that she has no reputable sources for her information. I would say something like this:
In previous attempts to reply to your E-mails, you have rejected any of the sources I have quoted as being another tool of the liberal media. What sources are you willing to listen to? You got the information in the E-mail you sent me from an E-mail sent to you. Are you claiming that any random E-mail sent to you is more reliable than an established news source? The E-mail you have forwarded to me is full of exaggerations, half-truths, outright lies, and irrelevant points. I could take the time to point out all the errors in it, but what would be the point? You have already indicated that you have no intention of taking account of any of the sources I quote. Isn’t it clear then that any further E-mail between us on subjects like these is a waste of time for both of us? If you’ve already rejected any possible arguments on political subjects that I could make as being just another part of the liberal media, what point is there in your trying to persuade me about any political subject? And what point is there in my trying to persuade you about any political subject? As long as you maintain your attitude about political statements, isn’t it clear that all rational argument has ceased?
You could possibly send her Little Georgie’s report card - another email glurge that I received:
Dear Mr. and Mrs. G.H.W. Bush,
Once again, it is that time of year when we update the parents of our students on their child’s progress, and we regret to inform you that your son, Georgie, is not doing as well as we’d hoped and expected when he embarked on his four-year program at our school.
As you are well aware, Georgie was installed as class president at the start of the school year, despite the fact that the majority of his fellow students did not vote for him. We foresaw problems immediately, but were assured by several school board members (who, as we understand it, are friends of your family) that this would not result in any real difficulty. Unfortunately, they have been proven wrong. In the area of scholastic achievement, despite our best efforts, Georgie is still reading and speaking at a grade level far below our usual standards.
At this point, we are not sure if his failure to learn is due to laziness and a lack of ability to apply himself to his studies, or if he simply lacks the intellectual capacity to improve in these areas. His oral presentations to the class are particularly troubling; it is apparent that Georgie has not read the necessary materials, and he often simply fabricates facts to hide this shortcoming.
In oral exams, he tends to repeat the same answers over and over, e.g., “The economy is good; jobs are on their way,” indicating a profound failure to keep up with the Current Events portion of the curriculum.
Georgie also tends to fabricate elaborate stories about himself – which, admittedly, can sometimes be very amusing. During a school celebration last May, he delighted his fellow students by coming to class in a little “flight suit” (just like the grown-ups wear!), and had everyone in stitches with his story about the family dog having eaten his report card from military pre-school!
On the whole, however, Georgie does not play well with other children. His “leadership” in the classroom continues to divide many students, one against the other. Other study groups, such as our French and German-language classes, are no longer willing to cooperate with Georgie’s group, even though they have traditionally done so in the past.
Your son also displays a lack of taking responsibility for his failings, and seems unable to appreciate the consequences of his actions. Although he was provided with the best textbooks on the subjects of the Economy, Job Creation, The Environment, et cetera, these books were damaged or completely destroyed within a matter of months. Georgie insists that he “inherited” these books in poor condition, despite all evidence to the contrary. (In fact, these same textbooks were previously used by one of our very best students, who actually returned them in better condition than he found them!)
During his first few weeks with us, Georgie quickly became part of a group of other “problem students.” Despite warnings, he has consistently befriended children whom we consider to be “bad elements,” such as Little Kenny Lay and a foreign-exchange student named Chalabi. Both of these youngsters have been expelled from other schools due to their involvement in cheating other students out of their lunch money. We feel that these kinds of relationships can only lead to no good, and hope that you will advise your child accordingly.
Georgie often displays aggressive behavior in the schoolyard, and recently assaulted a student in another school district, completely unprovoked. When asked about this incident, Georgie insisted that the other child was armed and dangerous. When investigation into the matter proved otherwise, Georgie changed his story several times: he was just trying to “democratize” the other child; the other child’s school was harboring gang members, and so on. Quite frankly, his story on this topic has so changed from week to week, we simply can’t trust his word at all anymore.
Georgie’s friends, while not great in number, are very loyal, but tend to be over-protective. If any of the other students point out Georgie’s failing grades, these friends simply shout them down and tell them not to speak at all.
When Georgie was summoned to the principal’s office several weeks ago, he insisted that his “best friend” come with him. We feel that it is in Georgie’s best interest to learn to stand up for himself; failure to do so could seriously damage his ability to handle a leadership role in his adult years.
As you are aware, final exams will be held in November, and Georgie’s past performance leads us to conclude that he will not be able to achieve the grades necessary to continue with another four-year term at our institution.
The Educators of This Nation’s Public Schools
There are a number of Kerry’s military records available to read on his website. As well as that, he has endorsements (read references) from a variety of people. Perhaps there’s a couple of endorsements from organizations or people that your aunt might respect?
excuse me, folks, but don’t you recognize a closed mind when you see one? It’s like any other prejudice - you see things the way you want/need to. Someone once said, “Believing is seeing.” We see things in ways that fit our beliefs. If we believe that white people are sneaky and deceptive, then whatever we see fits that belief. Even honest behavior is seen as a ruse - just a way to make people THINK they’re honest - but ultimately a very sneaky tactic. Auntie believes in the Dub meister, doesn’t believe in Kerry, and therefore, accepts as truth all those things that support her views and rejects all those that don’t. Don’t waste your attention on someone whose mind is so closed. (“Maybe if you just showed her a respectable source…”) Read my lips: Not. Gonna. Happen.
There’s also a picture of Bert the Muppet piloting one of the planes that crashed into the WTC. Both pictures are equally genuine.
And I’m still puzzling over how one can graduate from Yale without any higher education…
Do you really believe that refuting the “resume” and sending her the equally exaggerated one for W is going to change her mind any more than her sending the original e-mail changed yours? Wouldn’t it be more productive just to ask her not to send political e-mails, since the two of you obviously don’t agree, and aren’t going to anytime soon?
One made-up mind changing another made-up mind would be an amazing thing to see. I don’t think it’s going to happen here. It’s probably best to try to get her to accept that you’re going to vote for the candidate you believe is best, and for you to accept that she’ll do the same. Otherwise, you’re just throwing fuel on the fire. And firecrackers. And full containers of lighter fluid. And small bricks of magnesium. And other things you really shouldn’t throw on a fire if you don’t want it to get out of hand.
Come on, Chonos, give me a break. I was talking about this picture:
O.K., they’re not on the podium, but in the audience at an anti-war rally, and they were both speakers at the rally. They’re not close to each other in the audience, and they didn’t even meet each other until many years later. Yes, I know that there’s also a faked picture with just the two of them speaking at a rally. I wasn’t talking about that picture. I thought your snideness was uncalled for. You could have corrected me in a politer fashion than that. What was the point of deliberately taking the stupidest possible interpretation of what I was saying (by assuming that I was dumb enough to fall for the faked picture) when you could have just pointed out that in the real picture they are in the audience, not on the platform.
As the saying goes, you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reach through reason.
If you really want to have any chance of affecting her, you’ll need a real, long conversation where you (respectfully) try to understand exactly why she feels the way she does.
If you just want a quick hit, ask her about con-men who pretend to be religious in order to steal from the elderly. Then tell her that Cheney just came out in favor of gay marriage (you know he has an openly gay daughter). Then say that 'I’d be really pissed if you thought that Cheney, Karl Rove, and everyone else in the administration was just using Bush’s christianity to dupe me so I wouldn’t notice them robbing me blind. But maybe that’s just me."
Since your aunt is against the liberal mentality, she wouldn’t even be voting. Or does she think that it was a conservative agenda that granted women the right to vote back in 1920?
Incidentally, shouldn’t that word be spelled “Scaramouche”? Then again spelling and pronunciation are not strong points of the Dubya presidentiary and its legion of believerers.
With someone else’s money, by the way.
My apologies, Wendell, if I appeared overly sarcastic there. I had forgotten about the genuine picture, but the faked one was mentioned in a magazine article I recently read, putting it fresh in my memory. Had I remembered the genuine picture, I would probably have understood that that was the one to which you were refering. And what sarcasm I did include, I did not intend to be directed at you, since we’re in basic agreement on this point.
DoperChic — I think that the next time you’re talking to your aunt you should pause mid-sentence, vibrate a little bit, and then say: “This is Satan. I am speaking through your niece. You are correct, John Kerry is one of my minions, and the forces of evil are marshalled in his support. His election is not in question; he will be President. And if you don’t stop standing in the way of our plans, after he’s elected, you’ll go on the list of people we make ‘disappear.’ Your choice.” Then vibrate again and pick up your original sentence right where you left off. And when your aunt tries to ask you what just happened, tell her you have no idea what she’s talking about.
I would also add the following:
“I’ve done my research. I’ve provided you with the facts as I truthfully see them. Who do you think is lying - your neice or the anonymous author of that random e-mail?”
I wonder what she thinks of the KKK. Plenty of good Christians there, aside from their odd interpretation of “love thy neighbor”.
I’d just tell her I don’t listen to things like this unless they are supported by facts. Then challenge her to produce 5 facts that directly support any of the points in that ‘resume.’ Let her know that until she does so, you will not even read anything she sends you.
Yeah, and we all know that Republicans and Christians are nothing but a bunch of racists, right Jeff? :wally
He’s clearly implying no such thing. Read it again. He’s saying that you cannot claim Bush is a good Christian simply because he says he is, because then you’d have to claim any number of people are good Christians because they say they are. The KKK is a perfect example.