[QUOTE=elelle]
PS: Dear Pope,
Please read some history, please? It wasn’t a religion that tranformed the New World native people; it was the diseases brought by colonists. Please ask your God about that one for me. I’m a simple sort, and that didn’t seem very fair at all.
[/QUOTE]
But they had already made their peace with their God killing much of the white populace of Europe by plague, famine, and war. You may not agree with them, but Christianity has some fairly extensive and non-preposterous (even if you don’t buy them) answers to the Problem Of Evil or Problem Of Human Suffering. I am quite sure the Pope knows that pestilence killed many non-resistant Indians. I am quite sure he also knows the settlers had no freaking earthly notion of how diseases spread or what their effect would be. No one did until ca. 1890/Pasteur?
[QUOTE=elelle]
Oh man, Scylla, did you get the new Huitzilopochtli Mexica Fiesta Trainwreck? Gotta hand it to Taco Bell, they getting creative, and down to the good God Almighty roots of quick mexican fare: It’s a deep-fried turkey meat corn tortilla taco
[/quote]
[QUOTE=Martha]
The thing is, it sounds like the ultimate chutzpah or at the very least a Stalinesque re-write of history to put such a spin on events.
At the same time millions of Latin Americans have bought into it, knowing what they and we all know.
[/QUOTE]
How could they do otherwise and remain good Catholics? And wouldn’t it be foolish to abandon your church just because it did wrong to your distant ancestors?
Why would the Pope apologize to the crowds he was addressing? I’m pretty sure almost all of the people there were Catholic and they were thrilled that he was there.
And, as has already been pointed out, the Spanish probably didn’t have any understanding about what was causing the diseases or their spread.
And what were they supposed to do about it, anyways? They had zero cures for any diseases. And they had just gone thru a period in Europe where a great many people had died. Disease was the norm back then.
And if I remember my history correctly, they thought that epidemcs were sent by God. When the Spanish were conquering what is now Mexico City, and their enemies were dying of smallpox, they took that as a sign that they had God on their side and were doing God’s work.
Any doctors here want to back me up, or shoot holes in my argument? Please. Let’s fight some ignorance, at least about this aspect.
[QUOTE=Huerta88]
But they had already made their peace with their God killing much of the white populace of Europe by plague, famine, and war. You may not agree with them, but Christianity has some fairly extensive and non-preposterous (even if you don’t buy them) answers to the Problem Of Evil or Problem Of Human Suffering. I am quite sure the Pope knows that pestilence killed many non-resistant Indians. I am quite sure he also knows the settlers had no freaking earthly notion of how diseases spread or what their effect would be. No one did until ca. 1890/Pasteur?
[/QUOTE]
Wait, you’re saying the Black Plague (among other things) made the Aztecs and other natives and the European invaders equal? 'Cause that’s just all kinds of stupid.
I don’t think many (any?) of us are arguing that the Spanish meant to wipe out South Americans with disease. There may be evidence of that but I’ve never heard of it.
The key points though are:
1/ the arrival of the Conquistadores was not some joyous time of meeting strangers it was a time of pestilence and war,
2/ the Conquistadores were conquerers, not some friendly deputation wishing to develop cross cultural relations and find common ground,
3/ if you are right that the Conquistadores saw the disease killing their foes as assistance from their Catholic God (and you may well be), that rather tends to confirm that the arrival of the Conquistadores was not about a wonderful discovery of a common deity
Taking this into account, the Rat’s speech is total hogwash of the most weaselly sort.
