Given that the chapter was co-authored by the frothing racist, anti-Catholic nutjob I was describing above, and you were taking it seriously, I was just being nasty about you passing it around. I apologized.
Look at this, the new boss:
On Monday, Kerry said he would have voted to authorize the war knowing what he does now, but that he would have used the power more effectively than the current commander in chief.
This just in:
I suspect my suspicions will be further justified;
war is a racket;
politicians are on the take and beholden to the political clout of artifical persons;
artifical persons have a greater voice in the US than real persons;
and, water is wet.
I haven’t checked yet. Does Kerry intend to continue with the fourteen permanent bases, I mean enduring camps in Iraq?
My apologies for splitting hairs, SimonX, but Kerry did not precisely say that he would have chosen to go to war, just that he still would have voted to give the POTUS the authority to go to war if need be.
This part of Kerry’s statement is characteristic of his penchant for nuance. In effect, he is saying that believes it was right to give Bush the authority but that if he (JFK) had been POTUS he would not have necessarily exercised that authority.
Kerry did vote against Gulf War 1. I don’t think he’s a warmonger, but this is an election campaign. He can’t give the impression that he would be hesitant if a war was actually justified (which he hasn’t quite said about Iraq).
Consider the golden opportunity lost.
Suppose it were Kerry. Suppose he got the authorization from a supine and adoring Republican Congress. (IF you’re quite finished laughing? We can go on?..)
America presses for more inspections, more stringent investigations, and, due to the mounting military and political pressure, Saddam submits. Which he was doing. And we press our case and find what we found: nada damn thing.
OK, we look like dickheads. BUT: we look like we mean what we say, that we are willing to risk blood and treasure for an important cause, willing to step up to the plate, and finally, most important of all…(drum roll)…willing to admit it and back down when we are wrong!
You can buy international respect and cooperation like that. When our enemies say “warmonger”, our friends can say “Clearly not. When wrong, backed down.” Who would listen to Osamas fantasys about a bloodthirsty America bent on a Crusade? Who would listen to lies about scheming for oil?
We would have proved that the leader of the Free World leads as one of the civilized nations, not above the civilized nations, leader, not ruler. We would have gained a victory for ourselves and the world that you cannot achieve by force of arms.
And GeeDubya pisses it all away being a tough guy.
Praise The Leader.
You’re hilarious, elucidator. Have you considered playing the Improv?
Like all good comedians, you keep one foot in reality. But only one.
What on earth makes you think Saddam Hussein would have ever submitted to unfettered inspections? He had never done so, ever, since the Gulf War. All inspections were conditional, and were generally considered a farce by any reasonable standard.
What makes you think there would be mounting military and political pressure? France, Germany, and Canada have all nearly completely disarmed, and can field only token armies. The only countries that can bring military force to bear against Iraq in any significant way are the U.S. and Britain, who ultimately did so.
As to political pressure, the U.N. was making billions of dollars from a corrupt Oil for Food program, and Saddam Hussein was using much of that money to buy political support around the globe. France and Germany had billions of dollars tied up in Iraqi contracts, and a desire to counter an American hegemon anyway.
Your little fantasy had zero chance of playing out in the real world. It’s worthless, really. If you have to indulge in fantasy, better you should dream up some that give you some small comfort, when you’re alone at night, squinting at the ceiling.
He aready had. The inspections were ongoing and unfettered- including the palaces- when Bush decided they weren’t finding nothing quickly enough and chose to invade illegally anyway.
Incidentally, the it makes no difference if you think the UN was corrupt. That doesn’t mean that we get to ignore international law and do whatever we feel like anyway. If the cops are corrupt that doesn’t mean you can form your own vigilante posse.
That’s what I said he said.
You say nuance I say politico-hogwash.
The whole affair was a trumped up crisis. The honorable thing to have done, especially if one knew all of what’s known now would’ve been to call bullshit bullshit.
Less than that and you’re dry humpin a pig with the rest of them.
What keeps me from getting all hopeful about the demos is that they have such a reactionary stance. I mean, so much of their agenda seems to be predicated on reactions to what the GOP is doing. While I’m sure that they have some compelling reasons for this, it is not at all appealing to me.
Well good on him.
I’ve yet to see whereeven calling for the vote for the authorization was justified. It just furthered and encouraged the teacup tempest of the threat from Hussein.
I’d like to back someone for president who stood up and said, “This entire affair is a load of crap.”
As it is, I’m just against Bush.
Don’t sweat too much about me and my anti-gubmint disposition. I’m a tough customer when it comes to politicos. 'specially now that I’ve started paying attention.
Can I have a citation for this?
As far as I know the evidence for this has yet to be delivered to anyone outside of the Iraqi National Congress. You know, the INC, the same people who brought us the intelligence on Hussein’s WMD that Colin Powell generously described as “deliberately misleading.”
AFAIK, the only evidence is the newspaper article that was published in Iraq. When I combine the fact Chalabi has yet to make the actual documents available to any outside inspectors with the fact that Chalabi and his organization constitute known liars, embezzlers, and known spies for the Iranian government, it’s not possible for me to just take his word on it.
You remember, the same people who duped the WH and transferred national security secrets to 'nefarious" members of the Iranian regime with a “direct hand” in attacks against Americans.
So until I have some source other than these claims from the INC and INC related personel and organizations, I’ll continue to hold this in the same category as Curveball’s mobile bio-weapons lab stories- the bullshit category.
I know, I was just trying to underline that point.
No argument here.
I agree, and I fully ripped the Dems for going along with the vote. It was an election year stunt designed to get them on record as being “fur us or agin’ us” and I’m sorry they fell for it. I was also proud that our own Paul Wellstone, who was in a close Senate race of his own, voted nay even though it was expected to cost him his own election (as it turned out, he actually got a bounce in the polls and was pulling away from Coleman when he was killed in a plane crash. People respected that he put his principles ahead of his career. I wish more politicians would do the same).
I agree.
Paul Wellstone did, unfortunately he’s not on the ballot.
A commendable position. Perhaps you could get behind John Kerry’s One-Point Plan for a Better America.
Nobody’s eyes are closed over here either. I know I’m voting for a politician and I don’t expect Kerry to be another Lincoln, I am simply hoping for something akin to average. I also think that no matter what Kerry does, he’s got to be better than Bush.
But once he’s in there, he will get no free ride from me. I’m a lefty independent, not a Democrat. When he’s wrong I’m going to say so.
I have the exact same plan. What a coincidence.
I know a lot of people who think he’d be a better President than Mr. Bush. Currently.
Well, then it would be work. I hate work.
Let me guess here. That would be you, right?
Funny thing about that. Turns out Saddam’s awesome military machine probably couldn’t have taken Belgium in a fair fight. You will recall, if forced to, the peace feeler sent from Saddam to Darth Perle, begging for the chance to throw open his country to American inspectors. Which he didn’t regard as important enough to pass along to the people who were supposed to make such decisions.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t we promised that the Bushiviks would exhaust every diplomatic possibility before resorting to war? Well, gee, to my fuzzy-thinking, Pollyannish wishy-washy mindset, that sure looks like one. But I guess the urgent threat of attack by nuclear-anthrax Invisible Pink Unicorns of Death simply precluded any hesitation.
The Chalabi aspect of this has been adequately covered by my minions. (No, they don’t know it, but they were sedated when the chip was implanted.) But the UN part is intriguing, if only for the logistics.
“The UN was making billions…” Fascinating! How was it distributed? On a per capita basis, so Togo got as much as Columbia? Or was it just discreetly doled out to the Security Council? Or did it just go staight to the Black Helicopter fund? And with all those member nations, how in the world did they manage to keep it secret for so long, until our own paladin of virtue, Ahmed Chalabi, busted them? You have, I am sure, the details at your fingertips…cites, names, dates…otherwise you would not have offered such a seemingly preposterous contention. Share them, won’t you? Enquiring minds, and all that.
Yo’ momma ain’t the best company, but I’m seldom alone. Long as I’ve got the five bucks.
Dude, she charges you five bucks?
If you bring her a sammij she only charges half price. ( I told her half price means $1.75 
)
Now, the overall corruption of the program set up under U.N. auspices was multiple billions of dollars, most of which went to Hussein. The U.N. got many millions of dollars, and many millions more were sent to various countries to buy political support.
I’ll see your 4 month old cite and raise you the cite from this month that I have already provided:
Volcker said that his panel had not yet received the original list of oil vouchers supposedly awarded to diplomats and UN officials, which was published by an Iraqi newspaper several months ago.
(So far) This is all just based on the say so of know liars, thieves and spies who duped the WH.
I reserve the right to change my o[pinion if the conditions change. However, until there’s something more susbtantial to this than Chalabi’s word, it goes into the bullshit pile.
(Entire post witheld because that Smart-ass Simon got there fustest with the mostest.)
At any rate: Sen. Kerry? Anyone still remember.