But they played “Stayin’ Alive”! Isn’t that enough?
John Howard is an idiot, but that is simply incomprehensible to this yank.
What I came into the thread to say.
[Hijack] Great to see some sandgropers in this thread (as an ex-sandgroper). [/Hijack]
From the controversy (still!) over roadworks endangering and modifying heritage sites in the area (and the ensuing Australian Govt. vs. Turkish Government “You did!” “No, you did!” arguments still going on) to Howard’s “mix-up” over Chunuk Bair, to “Stayin’ Alive” – through all that, the best quote to sum it up came from an Aussie describing the latter debacle:
Indeed, they have.
I hadn’t heard of this, but yeah, it looks like a snub to me. What a prick. Since his last re-election he seems to think he doesn’t need to keep up appearances anymore. I think from now on he’s just gonna let his arrogance and megalomania shine on for the world to see.
At least you Kiwis have a PM you can be proud of when she makes an appearance at public events - Clark always says something thoughtful and appropriate. We’re stuck with our slimy bastard for another 4 years, sucking up to anyone bigger than him and acting like an arsehole to everyone else.
He either has to sack his very very pitiful staff or admit he fucked up.
I think the latter is the only likely explanation.
Well it sounds better then the probable alternative…The Yanks don’t like it when we play with those who argue.
I think you’re dangerously close to conspiracy theory material there, mate: I doubt that most of the US government {outside of the embassy in Wellington} have even heard of Anzac day, let alone care who snubs whom. Chalk it up to “Howard’s a tosser” and leave it at that.
Conspiracy? Like the kicked out of ANZUS conspiracy? See not so much conspiracy more reality.
You think that NZ’s decision not to join in the Coalition of the Willing wasn’t noticed by Australia? Do you not think for a moment that Howard didn’t feel let down by our no show? Do you think that the no show wasn’t discussed? (who gets to trade freely with the US now?..or will soon, a lot sooner then NZ)
I thought Anzac day was about fantastic biscuits (the ones like cookies), possums, and wombats, but I learned almost all I know about it from a Mem Fox picture book, so I shan’t claim to be informed, either. It’s like Veterans’ day, right?
I’m not sure that was a conspiracy, exactly: it’s pretty hard to be part of a defence alliance when the junior member of the pact won’t allow the major player’s ships into our ports. However, I suspect that our views on NZ’s defence policy, or lack of it, differ.
Kinda, elfkin477. The day commemorates when Australian and New Zealand soldiers landed at Anzac Cove in April 1915 – and around 10,000 Anzacs lost their lives (and around 80,000 Turks.). ANZAC stands for Australia and New Zealand Army Corps. They were called that pretty well from the kickoff, but it was a Kiwi clerk who started using the acronym.
April 25 is a public holiday in Australia and New Zealand. We note November 11 too, Remembrance Day, but not to the same degree of sacred commemoration. There are dawn and mid-morning services all over both countries for Anzac Day.
It’s pretty hard to have a defence alliance when one partner refuses to confirm or deny the nuclear status of their ships to a “junior partner” – but that’s stuff, surely, for another thread where we resurrect the anti-nuclear policy’s origins in the Lange era, hmm? Peace, guys.
And I don’t think there’s a “conspiracy” as far as Howard’s actions at Gallipoli are concerned. It appears he is moving towards having Anzac Day as something like “Australia’s Military History Day”. It was certainly a golden opportunity for him to equate the bravery of the diggers with that of the soldiers he’s sending over to Iraq as part of Bush’s Coalition. I see in today’s NZ Herald where Howard is going to enter into discussions to have Gallipoli made a heritage site. Well, actually not just a “heritage site”, but “an Australian heritage site”. Having memorials to Kiwi dead there is an afterthought now, a footnote. “Anzac”, it would seem, is just another synonym for “Australian” as far as Howard is concerned.
I’d be surprised to see Howard near any burial sites and memorials to the Kiwis who died at Gallipoli ever again. Not even if he had a gilt-edged invite sent by registered mail to his personal address, one a day for a year leading up to the next Anzac Day, or any thereafter. His political star shines best while he rides the flow of Aussie nationalism. And the average Aussie is emotionally stirred by Anzac Day (as are we Kiwis). To capitalise on that national emotion, he’s decided that “Anzac” doesn’t involve us, any more.
Calm Kiwi,
Calmed down yet? 
I was beginning to think I was the only one who was offended by Howard’s speech. I expectived to see editorials and letters to the editor aplenty but I saw not a lone.
Jeez, he gave the NZers the briefest of mentions. I thought Helen Clark’s speech was gracious and inclusive. His was completely cringe-inducing.
And why did he have to have his wife as his side when placing the weath? She has no public role and none of the other official wreath layers had a spouse at his/her side.
Family First!
Yeah, well she’d be the power behind the PM, wouldn’t she? Still, she had no official role and shouldn’t have been there.
I’m a few days late and a few dollars short but I totaly agree. The NZ public, historicaly, was probably a bit lack lustre (?) but the last 10 years or so have a made up for those years.
We have to make sure it continues to be about NZ as well. What happens now can’t affect what happened then. Kiwi’s sacraficed just as much as our friends over the Tasamn did.
We both need to remember it is ANZAC. The history is clear.