John McCain: Swift Boating looks good on Obama

Great Debates
1

As reported by Reuters, Republican presidential candidate John McCain has enlisted the help of smear merchants from the 2004 campaign, the so-called Swift Boaters. He hated them then; he likes them now. In 2004, McCain denounced the Swift Boaters’ ads against John Kerry as "'dishonest and dishonorable". But alas, since his attempt at withdrawing from federal funding failed because he had tied the money to a loan, he apparently finds them newly honest and honorable, gladly accepting both their support and their donations — nearly $70,000 so far from nine of Swift Boat’s largest funders. In a conference call yesterday, McCain dragged in the infamous Bud Day, one of the meaner and more vociferous 2004 Swifties to spit at General Wesley A. Clark, a four star General whose military service spanned nearly forty years, and included service as Supreme Allied Commander of European forces during the successful Bosnia and Kosovo operations.

I’m reminded of a scene from Caddyshack, when Rodney Dangerfield is examining hats in the pro shop, ridiculing their frumpish style until he detects his nemesis standing behind him wearing the same hat. Dangerfield turns to him feigning surprise, “Oh, it looks good on you, though!”, and with a roll of his eyes, he tosses the hat back on its rack. Apparently, John McCain, who ridiculed Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry in 2004 thinks they look good on Barack Obama in 2008. His plan backfired, however, since with his usual keen sense of bad timing, he unleashed it on the day Obama gave an historical and universally praised speech on patriotism that included a condemnation of Swift Boat tactics. No wonder McCain’s attempt to make something of nothing failed yesterday to resonate with voters as Obama’s overnight Gallup tracking poll numbers climbed another percentage point.

Suggestions for debate: (1) Has McCain yet reached the depths of his moral depravity, or will he dig deeper to find even more hypocrisy within himself? (2) Is Bud Day dishonoring his own notable military achievements (including a Medal of Honor) by using them as credentials to selectively smear patriotic Americans for political purposes? (3) Is this the precursor to a re-emergence of hate tactics from the right, just as Obama had predicted we would see?

In my opinion, McCain could not be more sinister in how he has conducted his campaign — from laughable charges of flip-flopping (made so by his own guilt) to the shameless solicitation of any and all who will give him a dollar or an endorsement. Bud Day is, like McCain, a confused and doddering old man driven by a spirit of meanness, and using one symbol to desecrate another. And I believe the Republicans have only just begun their shit-slinging. Luckily, this time it will fail because they face a candidate in Barack Obama who is smarter and more savvy than all of them combined. He is like Neo with one hand behind his back, calmly slapping down a thousand Agents Smith as they come out of alleys and sewers to attack him.

2

Wait…they stopped?

3

Oh blessed Obama, Source of all Bounty, Truth and Grace -

Thine humble servants dry their laundry in the radiance of your glory. Truly thy toenail trimmings exceed in value all the treasures of the earth, and a single hair from your armpit is worth more than all the stock options on earth.

Send down upon us, we pray, the blessings of your wisdom. Raise our taxes, that we might be spared the temptations of wealth. Increase the regulation on our companies, that we might come to know the blessings of leisure rather than the burdens of employment.

Foil the plans, we humbly pray, of evil men who will not worship thee as thou dost deserve. Send forth thy servants to poor-mouth their qualifications. Inspire in us the power to start umpteen million threads attacking them and extolling thy glory. Open our hearts that we might send thee our money, which thou hast decided thou needest since the glorious revelation that the public financing system is broken (after thou didst defeat the wicked Whore of Babylon, whose name be Hilary).

We beg, we grovel, we lick thy insteps in ecstasy before thee. Blow thy nose and toss the hankie before us, that we might touch it and be ennobled.

Then we want universal health care. Amen.

Regards,
Shodan

4

Finally, you’ve come around!

5

I have a sense that the typical smear tactics of the past eight years will not fly this year and will likely backfire in the perpetrator’s faces.

Maybe the public has gotten more hip to the tactics and see it for what it is. When phrases like “Rovian tactics” and “Swiftboating” and “Faux News” become part of the lexicon and not a historical reference I think it is safe to say there is a cultural understanding of these tactics at some level.

Then you have Obama aggressively disabling any such smears as they happen or even proactively taking it away from his opponents before it even gets off the ground. Then when they try it looks ineffectual and stupid. What’s more McCain is not all roses so many things (like flip-flopping) is even more easily reflected back at McCain.

It also could be people are feeling the economic pinch and have real concerns and want to see real solutions and not irrelevant rants about a flag pin. Such things may have worked in 2000 when the world was a safer place and Americans were riding high that they were willing to dwell on the tawdry drama. Not today.

In some ways I hope McCain and his 527 buddies keep it up. I honestly think it hurts them more than helps them and maybe politicians will finally figure this is a losing tactic and give it up for good.

6

Look at it this way. Every dollar they give to McCain is a dollar they can’t use in a 527 to smear Obama. If they do start up a 527 to do so, McCain should return the money. Until then, I don’t see why McCain can’t forgive them their past actions-- as a practicing Christian, that is the right thing to do, no?

Is? As in now? I’m not aware of him doing that.

Unlikely. From your own linked article in the OP:

7

I think you might have a valid debate if you wouldn’t poison the well like this. For the record, he’ll reach the deepest depths of his moral depravity the same moment he stops beating his wife.

This is really just the flip side of using a notable achievement (like a Medal of Honor) to promote somebody for political purposes. Like it or not, public opinion gives weight to miltitary awards. What somebody uses that for is completely irrelevant to the initial award. They may be an asshole, or they may be a saint, but that isn’t what the award is for.

How do you exactly define hate tactics? If it’s defined as personal attacks against a political opponent, both sides are guilty of that. Just ask General Betrayus.

I don’t think it’s really been atypical. The article in question is also quite typical. The headline reads that McCain accepted donations from Swift Boaters. The content states that he accepted donations from people who also donated to the Swift Boaters, which is entirely different.

Also, its a little bit droll to accuse Bud Day of spitting on Wes Clark when it was Wes Clark started it all.

8

Wes Clark didn’t start anything. We need to dispense of this lie that Clark said anything at all to disparage McCain’s service. It never happened.

9

I never said he did disparage it. But he did bring up his opinion on what it meant. That’s fine. It’s his right, and I agree with him to some extent.

But now, Bud Day shows up to defend McCain (the article didn’t mention any details), and the OP accuses him of trying to Swift Boat Obama?

How exactly does Bud Day disagreeing with Wes Clark about McCain’s military service relevancy have anything to do with Swift Boating Obama? :dubious:

The mere presence of Bud Day does not imply a swift boat style attack on Obama.

10

Wes Clark attacked McCain in that interview, and McCain is justified in responding. Had Clark talked only about the positives Obama has and not tried to drum up negatives for McCain, then no response would have been needed. Just because he didn’t disparage McCain’s service doesn’t mean he didn’t disparage McCain himself.

11

There is a $2,300 limit on contributions to a candidate’s campaigns (one for the primaries and another for the general), but there is no limit on what one may contribute to 527s. This tactic is available now thanks to John McCain, who sponsored the applicable legislation.

To whom does your second clause refer?

As stated in the OP, he was a participant in McCain’s conference call yesterday. In case you don’t know, conference calls are hosted by candidates and their supporters as fundraising tools. But reporters can and do listen in and speak. (Anyone with the correct numbers can join in the call.)

12

Just out of curiousity, I’ve seen it stated that Obama opted out of public financing in part because he doesn’t like how 527’s work.

Does that really matter? 527s are ‘issue’ based, not candidate based. 527s could still be formed the promote Obama, could they not?

13

Let’s also keep in mind that the SwiftBoaters were co-founded by John O’Neill, who had a decades long publicly aired disdain for John Kerry. I don’t see them going after Obama as there is no history between them. If a righ-wing group decides to smear Obama, it will probably be a completely different set of people with a different agenda. When and if that group emerges, I expect them to be roundly denounced on this MB except by the very few die-hard right-wing members we have. Until then, yelling “swiftboat” everytime someone criticized Obama or one of his “surrogates” only cheapens the term and muddies the debate.

14

That’s ridiculous. Who is this McCain fellow that we ordinary mortals may not criticize him? It is astounding how the right deifies him as though he were some holy relic.

15

To John McCain primarily, but secondarily to any practicing Christians reading this thread.

Yes, I’m aware of it. What was the “smear”, and how did Day use his military credentials to propagate it?

16

The Swiftvets don’t appear to have actually done much of anything for McCain or to Obama yet. Let’s wait and see.

17

Where did I say that no one could or should criticize him?

18

I was not aware that McCain was a practicing Christian. The only candidates that I have heard publicly confess Jesus Christ as their personal savior are Mike Huckabee and Barack Obama.

19

You said that General Clark stepped over the line by saying something negative about McCain rather than something positive about Obama. Criticize -> saying something negative.

20

Since when is that the criterion for being a practicing Christian? McCain is known to be reticent about discussing his own faith in the political sphere. I thing that is a good thing: