One of Trump’s best lines came at the end:
“Hillary has experience but it’s bad experience.”
It’s reminds me of a five year old with a limited vocabulary trying to explain something complex by putting simple words together into a new phrase.
One of Trump’s best lines came at the end:
“Hillary has experience but it’s bad experience.”
It’s reminds me of a five year old with a limited vocabulary trying to explain something complex by putting simple words together into a new phrase.
Your article does not prove that Donald’s claim is true, Flyer.
The article you linked to was written last January and is talking about 2015. It says nothing about the current claim of the NYT that crime in the city is down.
That claim, which you quoted from ThelmaLou who was [I assume] referring to this fact checking article written today (well, last night)
On Mr. Trump’s claims that murders are up in New York City.
Mrs. Clinton said they are down. Mrs. Clinton is correct. Crime statistics showthat murders are down year on year, to 246 from 257. A spokesman for the New York Police Department weighed in on Twitter to say that murders and shootings are down significantly. “#NYC is on pace to have one of the safest years on record for crime.”
The PDF in that first link -
154.30 KB
is a compilation of stats showing that crime is down slightly this year from last year 2015. The stats also show that crimes is drastically down from where it was twenty years ago.
Donald Trump is wrong that crime in NYC is currently skyrocketing and that article you quoted from last January does not absolve him of lying.
I think it’s clear this debate was an unmitigated disaster for Trump and that Hillary has come out of it smelling like roses.
Has anyone here pointed out yet that Hillary didn’t take a single sip of water while Trump was storing it up like a camel. No stamina my ass.
I think Hillary came off better, but not in any way that significantly undermines or strengthens either campaign. Trump had his usual problems, but the most glaring ones were below the typical apocalyptic levels (no mention of The Wall™, Radical Islam™, etc). There was a lot of “soft” racism and “soft” sexism, but he did very few awful things during the debate.
Hillary was Hillary, and gave a very polished, planned presentation, and successfully baited Trump a bit. (Which made the “temperament” comment funny) However, she made some missteps. The one that stood out it me is that I’m not sure tying Trump to trickle-down economics is wise, that ties him to the old Republican Party, and more importantly, Reagan. The party is fairly divided right now, and by tying him to old Republican policies rather than furthering that rift by focusing on his alt-right aligned traits seems like it could backfire by making the more traditional Republican holdouts think that maybe his views aren’t that bad after all.
Like, the issue I see with this debate is that Trump didn’t perform at peak Trump. He performed at a level significantly less polished than a traditional candidate, but his biggest problem was his trademark rambling. If an undecided voter is already familiar with him, I don’t see this disqualifying him. Hillary’s comparative polish standing next to Trump may have gained her a few fleeting supporters, but again, it’s Hillary being Hillary.
So overall I think Hillary won, but it’s relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
Hillary was Hillary, and gave a very polished, planned presentation, and successfully baited Trump a bit.
A bit? She baited him constantly, and he fell for it every single time.
Yes.
Yes, he did.
He did that.
Yes.
…holy crap. Trump is Mojo Jojo.
Well, if Mojo Jojo had a lobotomy and a meth habit.
Being in the UK, I slept through it, but the UK press are calling it for Clinton. Pretty much a trouncing, too.
This debate may strike a chord with professional women who are used to being interrupted by men who have no idea what they’re talking about.
Some of my favorite Trump moments:
I’ll release my taxes after the audit is done. Also, I’ve been under audit for 15 years.
My strongest asset is my temperament. Why, I almost called Hillary some horrible things but I didn’t because my temperament is so tremendous.
His rambling non-sequitur about his Florida club where he doesn’t discriminate, not even against Mooslims.
Of course I don’t pay taxes, or employees, that’s smart. Wow, look at these NATO moochers not paying their fair share.
Whenever he had an opportunity to show some empathy he would find a way to mention a business he owns in some city and how successful he is.
Bragging about getting Obama to release his birth certificate, of course Hillary the LOSER couldn’t do it. SAD.
Casually suggesting in an offhand comment China should invade North Korea. That’s what that was, right?
Constantly drinking water after blasting Rubio in the primaries for the water incident.
Hillary started off shaky. Trump’s strength is when it comes to NAFTA, trade, rust belt woes. “Trumped Up Trickle Down” is correct but way too cutesy, please never say it again. America is OK with Hillary being a stone cold ball buster.
- I’ll release my taxes after the audit is done. Also, I’ve been under audit for 15 years.
I thought this had already been shown to be a lie, that the IRS had already publicaly said nothing was stopping him releasing any tax returns, so if he said this in the debate was he not immediately called out on it?
Sure, but even by his own logic it sounded funny.
Clinton did better, but I’m worried that Trump had the better sound bites, like the “For 30 years you’ve been doing it, and now you just started thinking of solutions” thing. I think it’s soundbites that will get the replays and will convince the people who didn’t watch who won.
This is a good point, which is why I say the debate, although it is over officially, may not be completely over in terms of the social media life cycle. The partisans are going to be out to spin this. But I’m going to trust that Clinton’s army knows this as well, and they will also be spin some yarn of their own.
The early indications are that last night went well for Hillary, and I’m expecting a bump in the polls. Hillary could have done better – other candidates might have been more aggressive, faster, and sharper in rebutting Trump. But she was stable and focused, and calm. She also looked pretty healthy and in fact the real conversation actually now seems to be about Trump’s health, not Clinton’s.
Some of Trump’s responses that might have played well in his GOP primary debates might very well have backfired in this one. For instance, Trump never rejected the substance of Clinton’s claims that he doesn’t pay income taxes. I wish she also would have attacked his business record more aggressively on outsourcing, but she handled her policy record - which was a potential weakness - pretty well. And she hammered Trump’s tendency of stiffing contractors, which again, he didn’t really ever refute. His response was “Smart business by the way.” :rolleyes: If fence-riders at home saw those exchanges, it’s over. Trump probably lost their votes for good.
In short, my debate take-away is this: Clinton probably removed some doubts about her, and Trump probably created more doubts about himself. Thus, Clinton won – bigly.
Nice list, marshmallow. I especially like the line about NATO moochers.
So overall I think Hillary won, but it’s relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
We will have to see what impact this has on polls, but my initial reaction is to disagree. Time is of the essence for Trump – if he falls behind by 2-4 points in the polls he has to work hard to get that back and he doesn’t really have much time left and he probably doesn’t have the campaign resources to do it.
The New York Times calls it for Hillary, but says she and Holt failed to call Trump out on lies, for instance, when he said crime was up in New York City-- actually it’s down.
No. The claim was about murders, not crime. They did increase in 2015. Preliminary numbers for 2016 show a decrease, though. This is what happens when people don’t pay attention to the debate, then waddle off to the nearest echo chamber for reassurance.
I thought this had already been shown to be a lie, that the IRS had already publicaly said nothing was stopping him releasing any tax returns, so if he said this in the debate was he not immediately called out on it?
A lie? He said he’d release them after the audit, not that he was forbidden by law to do so.
And he’s always being audited, darnit.
No. The claim was about murders, not crime. They did increase in 2015. Preliminary numbers for 2016 show a decrease, though. This is what happens when people don’t pay attention to the debate, then waddle off to the nearest echo chamber for reassurance.
Wait, you’re accusing OTHERS of waddling off to echo chambers for reassurance? Where did you get your information from?
CLINTON: Well, it’s also fair to say, if we’re going to talk about mayors, that under the current mayor, crime has continued to drop, including murders. So there is…
TRUMP: No, you’re wrong. You’re wrong.
CLINTON: No, I’m not.
TRUMP: Murders are up. All right. You check it.
Clinton’s claim was about all crime, contrary to what you said. Trump called her claim wrong, and said murders are up. That’s not correct, again according to actual facts.
I think it’s clear this debate was an unmitigated disaster for Trump and that Hillary has come out of it smelling like roses.
Has anyone here pointed out yet that Hillary didn’t take a single sip of water while Trump was storing it up like a camel. No stamina my ass.
90 minutes with no bathroom break - she was just being prudent.
We all know about the 27% crazification factor in the US, right?
Well, guess what percent in the CNN poll said Trump won?
We all know about the 27% crazification factor in the US, right?
Well, guess what percent in the CNN poll said Trump won?
I saw the poll and that thought immediately jumped in my head. I think a few of us have even kicked that number around here a few times IIRC. I obviously don’t have any hard data but it seems to me that the only people who truly thought Trump won or in any way looked good were hardcore partisans. Hell even Fox News is declaring Hillary the winner and saying he wasn’t prepared.
I don’t know if Hillary improved her likeability and trustworthiness quotients – maybe just slightly so if at all. She will need to improve those if she possibly can. But the key achievements were that she looked strong, so we can stop talking about her health now. She also made Trump look weak and unqualified on what might have been the single most important debate stage in decades.
I don’t know if it’s an outright fatal blow to Trump’s chances, but I’d say it was absolutely not a good night for the big Cheetoh.