[quote=“Kobal2, post:72, topic:550885”]
Now Ug, he would have been a good mayor.
And people are saying that because it’s been repeated ad nausem by dishonest hacks. There is absolutely nothing insensitive about a community center being built 2 blocks from ground zero simply because they are Muslim. You can’t see it from ground zero. It’s bullshit manufactured anger.
What the hell are you talking about? What appeasing have I done? I’m a patriot and I love my country. That’s why it saddens me to see people buy into the fear mongering and ignorence. We should aspire to be better than that. I don’t believe that sort of shit should be appeased. That’s not showing sensitivity. That’s caving to unreasoning mob mentality.
We’ve killed way more than 3000 Muslims by now haven’t we? I mean way, way more. Innocent civilians. There are already many Christian churches in Iraq.
Do you think those Muslims who blanket hate all Americans are justified? Does embracing lingering hatred and resentment and aiming it at groups who aren’t responsible advance our society and live up to our founding principles?
This was in response to the credulty expressed over some muslims treating the mosque as a symbol of victory. Given that a good number of muslims cheered the death of the infidels on 9/11 and that muslims are known to build mosques over conquered land, how unlikely is it really?
Oh insluting is a word alright. One I use on many Saturday nights.
Someone posted a link explaining where this story came from. It’s an interesting brief read. It was totally fabricated beginning with a particular anti Muslim group that picked up on an article that made the mistake of having a “Mosque at Ground Zero” sort of headline. From then on it was Hey look everyone , a controversy and conflict. Pile some wood on the fire and let’s not ruin it with the facts.
What infiruates me is how this fear mongering for profit increases the division and the chances of violence, and to few gives the fear mongers shit for that.
I don’t care how the meme got formed - the fact is, it’s already there. And again you’re missing the point re: my final question. I’m just pointing at the hypocrisy of a lot of you here. All of you want to point and laugh at those who find the mosque insensitive and yet none of you have categorically stated that the hypothetical Pastor X WOULDN’T have been excoriated here. These muslims are pricks.
I’ve read speculation (possibly here on the SDMB) that most journalists have to handle public figures with kid gloves or risk alienating them and losing “access” to them and scaring off other potential interviewees. Jon Stewart has the luxury of being able to risk losing access because he can fall back on interviewing celebrities like Jennifer Aniston (his guest on the night of this particular episode).
It works out great for Stewart, because he can not only take shots at real news outlets (and commentators whose not-news shows run on cable news channels), but can also seemingly at will do their job better than they can. I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, and he may in fact be burning bridges too quickly to be able to sustain it on a nightly basis, but he doesn’t need to.
It doesn’t matter what some unnamed Muslims might think. Fundamentalist Chriatians think everyone who doesn’t worship Jesus the way they do are going to hell. I don’t give a crap what they think either. I’m not interested in encouraging the spread of any religion for those who think their way is the only true way. I am interested in judging an issue according to the facts and supporting and living up to certain principles. I’m interested in our society not being so easyily manipulated by fear mongers who care nothing about serving the public but have thier own selfish agenda.
I think that Muslims in America will only help promote peace as new generations of Muslims born and raised in America work to promote peace. We can encourage this by not being fearful and suspicious of evey Muslim. Let’s not encourage bigotry and see how that works.
So there’s no mosque there? I want you to categorically lie on your next post in response to this question.
I don’t care about your mental images. A mosque is a place of worship for Muslims. It also functions as a community center - it can have other amenities like gymnasiums, health clinics, libraries, etc.
And I don’t care about combating the building of the mosque. All I’m saying is that these muslims are pricks.
Strawman much?
When did I say that they don’t have a right. In fact, I said they do. They’re just insensitive in the same way that Pastor X is. Whether or not it was their original plan, they’re still pricks. In fact a lot of moderate muslims have already written against the building of this mosque precisely because they acknowledge that there will be some in their ranks who will view it as a “victory” over the 3,000 infidels that were slain on that faithful day of 9/11 - Allahu Akbar!!!
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And until now, nobody has categorically said that “my” Pastor X will NOT be excoriated for the same reasons.
OK, so some of them are stupid fucking assholes. Got it. So the reason they can’t all, as a group, enjoy the same security and freedom the rest of us do, is that none of us are stupid fucking assholes?
Or some of us are stupid fucking assholes, but that doesn’t matter because none of us are stupid fucking Islamic assholes.
Now, I’ve got some stupid fucking assholes for blood kin, so I’m thinking it can’t be the first one, but you seem to be the expert on this, so I thought I’d check.
He’s not. He goes after the lowest of the low hanging fruit, usually skirting issues of actual substance. And understandably so, because that stuff is depressing and not conducive to humor. It’s a lot easier to crack jokes about FOX news and Tea Partiers for 2 years than it is to make a segment about Obama gunning down wedding ceremonies with unmanned drones or the two party consensus. At heart the show is in the Democrat party camp – Stewart believes in the system if the right people are in charge, he believes in the betterment of the American people and its institutions, and so does his audience. In terms of meaning or honesty it’s basically Daily Kos with video editing. And it is funny, yes. But let’s not get carried away here.
Maybe if you focus your scope to only television you could make a case, but that’s damning with faint praise.
It seems to me that if you give a shit about principle rising above emotion and issues judged on the facts rather than purposeful and malicious distortions you would give a crap about how the meme got formed.
I didn’t miss anything. I simply responded with real world details instead of some non existant example. It seems like it’s you that have missed the point while you focused on your analogy. Try considering the real world points I made in relation to your fabrication.
If it makes it clearer for you I’ll say, no, judging by the real world details I mentioned, nobody would give a rats ass about Pastor X building a Christian center in Baghdad or critisize that Pastor for being insensitive. Once again, it’s not a Mosque for the purpose of speading Islam. It’s a community center open to multiple cultures and religions. If you look at the history of Chritianity you can also focus on some pretty negative points if that’s what you prefer. The fact is Islam also has very positive points in history when it promoted multiculturalism art, music, and religious tolerence.
Bullshit!
I just said it but I’ll say it again if you like. The whole insensitive bullshit is just a claok for anti Muslim fears.
Why in the world should this group of Muslims have to be discouraged from exercising the religious freedom written in our own constitution because of some imagined non existant association with a group of extremeists or other anti American Muslims. It’s not sensitivity to cave in to irrational fears and ignorance.
And one again, it is and has always been a planned multiculteral community center, not a Mosque.
Dam , Muslims in general are regarded less favorably now than right after 9/11 because of people embracing this anti Muslim fear mongering Check this out
We were sure at one point that liberated Muslims would welcome us and gratefully establish a democracy in Iraq. Now we can’t allow American Muslims to build a community center with out seeing it as an insult. Some pathetic lack of progress there.
It seems that if anyone should know about straw men, we should be able to rely on you for that expertise.
The Cordoba Initiative has been in the Tribeca neighborhood of Manhattan, (the same neighborhood as the WTC), for decades. They have, during that time, promoted a Sufi view of Islam that is in direct conflict with the Wahabbism of bin Laden and his cronies. They have done so, making do with rental properties scattered around the same neighborhood.
A few months back, they decided to invest in the neighborhood in which they have lived and worked for so many years, by purchasing a dilapidated building that has no historical relevance, and replacing it with a new structure. The proposed structure is in the center of a block that has no line of sight to the WTC location and the height of the proposed building is actually shorter than either of the buildings on the two intervening blocks, so the WTC location will not be visible from its top story.
All the hoopla about the “Ground Zero Mosque” was invented by haters and you seem to believe that the only “reasonable” solution is for this community group to pick up and leave the neighborhood where they already have roots.
If the haters would simply stop their protests, there would be nothing for any radical Islamists to “celebrate,” because it would simply be a quiet building being used by the sort of Muslim that the Islamists already hate.
what a joke. you whined that nobody responded only to post this when you got a direct response. You’ve ignored the facts and relied on repeating bogus talking points. I’m convinced this post is the best you have to offer in this debate.
I recommend to you *A Short History of Islam *by Karen Armstrong. Informative, acute, and intelligent. At the end of the book, I knew a lot more about Islam and nothing whatever about Ms Armstrongs own religious conviction. I was rather impressed by that.
One thing struck me especially: Mohammedans revere Jesus as a prophet and holy man, but refuse to accept the crucifixion, insisting that Allah would not permit one of his beloved messengers such a wretched fate. Turned that over in my mind a whole bunch of times.
The people building the community center are Americans. They are my people.
Sufi proverb: God respects me when I work, but He loves me when I sing.
Isn’t that just the shit? Sufi catch the shit for Wahabbist hatred. Its like blaming the Unitarians for snaking-handling Pentecostals.