Wow, you really hate the guy, don’t you? You should look into that. It’s not healthy.
If you want to get angry at Israel, get angry at Israel. Don’t take it out on Pollard.
We can wait for a more … responsible answer, whenever you have one to offer. Take your time, gather your thoughts.
You don’t see anyone saying that? It seems that there are several saying just that.
As for those inside America - obviously, that’s a different story. He’s a traitor to America, and a spy.
Now, it has always been part of the spying game that some countries will on occasion order spies to spy, but then disown them or abandon them if they are caught - to save having to own up to their actions.
It seems to me that many of you are basically arguing that Israel is in the wrong to fail to play that game with this particular guy. From a realist perspective, maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong - that is a calculus based on the relative value of the spying versus the value of the loss of goodwill created by the spying and subsequent support of the spy.
However, as someone who is neither Israeli nor American, it strikes me as more admirable to support one’s caught agent, rather than to disown him; after all, the primary offence is the spy-masters.
Israel paid him to get secrets they could turn around and sell to the Soviets. Clear? How’s that for “goodwill”?
They gave him citizenship and a trust fund, and have a hero’s welcome waiting for him once they smuggle him out of his own country. Clear? How’s that for “goodwill”?
What level of “support” do *you *think is appropriate? It’s about time to stop the tut-tutting and offer your own principled views for discussion.
I can’t think of a single good thing to say about Pollard, who’s both a traitor AND an obnoxious, arrogant sphincter. If he’d showed even the tiniest trace of remorse or humanity, he might have been released sooner.
I don’t feel the least bit sorry for him, and wouldn’t shed any tears if he died in prison 20 years from now. But if he were released after 30 years in prison, I certainly wouldn’t think he’d gotten off easy!
Mark me down as “Who cares?”
And if I were an Israeli, I’d be livid that Obama thinks he can buy back my good will by releasing a jerk like Pollard.
AFAIK he’s being released under standard parole conditions that have been complied with now, not as a special favor. Unless the expectation was that he would be otherwise denied a parole he was fairly eligible for, which could only be justified as a way to slap Bibi’s face and really do we want to keep at that? (rhetorical question!)
And frankly I can see Alessan’s point, it is a pragmatic POV that if you’re going to turn out foreign agents it is a good idea to promise them reward or protection and make it up to them if they took one for your team. “If you’re caught we’ll deny all knowledge of you” is nice for the *Mission Impossible *script but it depends on your agents being committed True Believers. What do I care if *they *want to give him a hero’s welcome and a pension, it’s not coming out of my pocket (well, not directly… but that’s another story).
In any case the USA made their point by making him serve his 30 year minimum, pointedly ignoring the “but it’s Israel!” faction’s pleas for special consideration. Good enough.
Pollard does appear to have been one, although greed may have contributed.
FWIW, he volunteered, he was not recruited. His Israeli handler even thought it was a sting attempt. There was no obligation to him on Israel’s part that they did not define themselves, was there?
[QUOTE=Malthus]
…it strikes me as more admirable to support one’s caught agent, rather than to disown him
[/QUOTE]
Right - anything less than a major pressure campaign for his premature release, making him a millionaire, giving him a big welcome home celebration amid triumphant speeches by government leaders would be “disowning” him. :dubious:
?? He was paid a salary while in prison. US has similar rules for the members of its military. Pollard was not military, but the situation, in terms of the government’s responsibility for him, is similar. Why do you find this objectionable?
This million dollars, Terr.
Let’s see - 30 years, million dollars. That’s $33K/year. Man, what huge wages.
Loyalty and responsibility? He had none to his own country.
How were you “responsible for getting him out of prison”? Pollard’s a U.S. citizen – and the U.S. is resposible for his sentence, since he broke our laws.
Last time I checked, Pollard is an adult, and mentally capable of making his own choices. He is responsible for his own actions. I’m not saying Israel wasn’t in the wrong in hiring the guy. But he’s not some innocent sacrificial lamb. Dude knew what he was doing was wrong, and did it anyway. He wasn’t judged incompetant to stand trial, as far as I know.
Don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.
I’m all for releasing Pollard at the next Submarine Veterans reunion or any Navy reunion. Heck, I’ll buy a ticket for him personally.
Once you consider that the amount is free from US taxes, and his living expenses of roughly $30,000 a year have been picked up by the US taxpayer for the last few decades, I’d say that’s a pretty nice windfall.
So, any guesses as to when Israel apologizes for jeopardizing our security?
No need to guess since Israeli officials publicly apologized in 1987 a couple days after Pollard was sentenced.
Cool. When did US apologize for running these two spies in Israel? (Not that I think an apology is required, needed, or is appropriate).
Yosef Amit - IDF officer, convicted in 1980s for spying on behalf of the US. Hushed up by Israel, not to embarrass United States.
Andrzej Kielczynski (Joseph Barak) - high level Likud politician recruited by the CIA.
Release him. The amount of time he’s already served has pretty much destroyed his life. We win! Yay!
Judging by your posts in this thread Im guessing you are obsessed with Israel. Why?
Because that’s what the thread is about.