And Israel is responsible for getting him out of prison since he acted on their orders. I don’t see the contradiction, here.
You’re responsible for the actions undertaken under your orders. When people get in troubles for doing what you told them to do, it’s your responsibility to help them, whether you’re a mafia boss, a general, or Israel.
In an imaginary world where countries all play nice to each other, maybe it was in the wrong. In a world where the USA taps the phone of Merkel, I’m not very convinced.
He knew that it was illegal. He apparently didn’t think it was wrong.
That some people are wondering how a country could come to the conclusion that being supportive of its own spies is both the right and the efficient thing to do puzzles me. Obviously, you’re more likely to recruit spies if they believe you’re going to try hard to get them out of jail if they’re caught, and failing that, that they’ll at least get a nice fund set up for them.
You’re asking *me *why it seems that way to you? Can’t help you there, Chief.
clair, Pollard eagerly volunteered to do what he did, so eagerly as to raise suspicions. He wasn’t recruited. Responsibility for his actions falls entirely on him.
So doesn’t that make it even more of an obligation for Israel to take care of him? I mean, here’s a guy who, out of his own free will, spies on a country for you and gives you important information and then winds up in prison for 30 years for it. Seems like you sort of owe him for that.
You seem to have a special hatred for Israel. You pretend that they are the only country that engages in espionage and hold special vitriol for them. Remember Francis Gary Powers? He is still regarded as a hero here in the USA. Israel, like France or the Chinese or the Russians or us are only doing our best to survive in this hard world.
What a mafia boss should do is to stop being a mafia boss, even if it harms his ability to protect the criminals who used to be under him. As a friend of Israel (although not all Israeli policies) this seems to me a terrible comparison.
I’m hoping we are no longer living in a world where the US taps Angela Merkel’s phone, just as I hoping we are no longer in a world where Israel spies on the United States government.
I can see the kind of spy Israel really needs – an insider in an Arab country or the Palestinian Authority – might be discomforted if he or she read about Pollard living, in extreme poverty, on park benches in Tel Aviv. But as for being publicly praised, this is the last thing they need or want.
You’re wrong. Israel is pretty consistently in the wrong in the Pollard matter, and has gone out of their way to stay wrong, but it’s pretty clear why and how, too. Pointing that out is not an expression of antipathy, but of fact.
Oh, excuse me, I thought you were trying to be serious. Never mind.
What you think of Israel is irrelevant. If you want people to work for you, as hitmen, soldiers or spies, you support them. Whether you’re the good guy or the bad guy doesn’t matter.
As the Merkel example shows, if we are no longer living in such a world, it’s a very recent and frankly quite astonishing change.
Israel seems to disagree with you about what she really needs. Presumably, they got something they deemed useful out of the deal with the Soviet union, for instance.
I’m assuming that your “friendship” with Israel makes you wish they were better guys (according to your definition of good guys) than they’re really are. In fact better guys than pretty much every other nation has been, is and will be in the foreesable future.
In fact I think you’re under the delusion that Israelis love, respect and need the USA much more than they actually do. Remember the saying atributed to half of the proeminent politicians in the world “Nations don’t have friends, they have interests”.
Absolutely not. There should be no way Pollard gets out, ever.
I am not going to debate his level of crime vs. any other case. IMO, he should rot in prison and die, just like all traitors should, in any country, regardless of whether the information sold is to an ally or enemy. Pollard had access to classified information and tried to profit by selling it to Israel (and god knows who else). It doesn’t matter. He was caught, and the penalty should be life. If he got away with it, he would have made a fortune, and that’s part of the game.
Anyone who spies for money and doesn’t accept this side of the equation is a fool or a liar. Either way, they shouldn’t be out in public. I have no sympathy for Pollard (or ANY spy) who gets caught doing what they are doing by the country they are spying on, and gets punished according to that country’s laws.
Agree with this post.
Pollard has had Israel lobbying for him since he went away. I remember a 60 Minutes (I think) piece decades ago about him, so he has been on their radar screen for over 30 years. If his release is a political maneuver, to benefit a candidate for 2016, that pisses me off to no end. But I doubt that will ever be proven. However, I think it smells bad. And I don’t care of it benefits a republican or democrat… The man should never get out.
And before someone picks apart Ravenman’s post, to tell me what is and isn’t actually true, don’t bother. What he did to go away 30 years ago is enough for me to keep him locked away.
He should not be let out unless he has a place outside the US to go. Israel would take him (I am pretty sure, anyway). If they DO let him out, he should be immediately deported to Israel, and the Israeli government should pick up the tab for his trip to the airport and a one-way ticket. The US should close their borders to him.
The traitor definition (aid or comfort the enemy) in the US Constitution needs to be changed first:
It seems to me obvious to me that the Espionage Act is really a treason act in disguise, especially when the penalty imposed is similar (or longer) than that typically imposed for treason. Your use of the word treason shows it.
If guess you could say that stopping treason is more important than the US government following the constitution.
Maybe I’d agree with an espionage act if the penalty was made less than the penalty for treason, which starts at five years in prison.
If the threat of three or four years in prison doesn’t deter, neither will draconian sentences of several decades in prison or life. Having the world’s highest incarceration rate has been tried by the US, and it has failed.
Here you and Pollard are on the same side!
My understanding is that, as part of his punishment, he is under travel restrictions for five years after release. Someone can correct me, but they’ll only let him out of his judicial district for a good reason such as a legitimate job that requires travel. Ticker-tape parades don’t qualify.
Personally, I like travel restrictions, as a punishment, a lot better than prison. I say, no Disneyworld for spies! If Pollard is found west of the Hudson (assuming Eastern New York judicial district), then I’m OK with sending him back to prison.
I generally support this view, but I’m not sure in this case. I suspect spies are much more likely than “common criminals” to think long and hard about what they’re doing and the possible consequences and to weight them against possible rewards. Same probably with white collar crime.
I don’t see where it is that President Obama had a whole lot of anything to do with this case, other than not intervening. Seems to me you should be (a) congratulating the parole board for granting him parole, but at the same time (b) castigating the parole board for requiring the man to remain in the US for the duration of his parole.
Or, perhaps you linked to the wrong article online. Care to provide a link to the one that you’re crowing about?
“I suddenly found myself confronting a community in which racism and bigotry were acceptable social practices,” Pollard told investigators. “I was never able to establish friendships in my neighborhoods and was compelled to spend most of my time around the city’s Hebrew Day School, where I felt at least physically safe and emotionally protected.”
Yep, being forced to live in a university town in Indiana is tantamount to life in a Klan HOA.
The article also quotes Pollard as saying his “emotions” got the better of him. That, and the cash.
If he actually has to serve out five years of parole in the U.S. :dubious: it would have to be excruciating, knowing his spy pay with interest has been building up all this time in an Israeli bank account.
What is it about this guy that makes everyone lose their shit? He did 30 years. Let him go to Israel, enjoy his little parade through Tel Aviv, and live out his live in obscurity.