Joni Mitchell: why is she so bitter?

Ten years ago she said, “I came to hate music.” A few days ago she said this about Bob Dylan:

As a Joni Mitchell fan, I find this a bit disconcerting. She just sounds like a bitter old lady. :frowning: What’s gotten into her?

Still love her music, though.

Joni Mitchell is still alive?

You’re thinking of “Joanie Loves Chachi”.

Mitchell has a truckload of talent and really has gotten little recognition. Dylan, in my opinion is WAY and I mean WAY overhyped. This isn’t to say he has no talent, clearly he does, but in relation to his fame, it’s way out of proportion.

Ask anyone about a 60s protest singer and you get Dylan. OK maybe you might get a few “Peter, Paul and Mary” fans but even then, it’s Dylan

If she is bitter, it’s simply because she has more talent and less and I mean a LOT less fame.

But that’s common in music. Look at Jo Stafford, the biggest selling female artist of the pre-rock era. Yet who’s heard of Stafford today? Her vocalizations and ability to sing all kinds of music is jaw dropping, but you’d be hard pressed to find anyone under 50 who’s heard of her. Yet she is a very important part of music history.

So again, if Mitchell is bitter, it is because her level of talent should have gotten her more exposure and fame (and money). But again, this isn’t unique to her and it’s not unique to women or any race, it’s the way music, or any entertainment genre is.

Certain people will always command fame beyond what they should

I looked her up on Wikipedia after reading this, mainly to find out when her last album was. In reading, she expressed dissatisfaction with the music industry, the record companies are too controlling, that sort of thing. So maybe it’s a case of getting older, wiser, and more cynical, which is a not uncommon condition that comes with age.

Then this little nugget: she is “undergoing treatment for Morgellon’s” disease/syndrome/delusion. :confused: (which I also looked up, holy moly, what a bizarre thing!!!) Maybe that has something to do with her crankiness.

If your weren’t there, then you don’t understand. Yes, of course, he is way, way overhyped. BUT, he was there when it wasn’t cool. He was the beginning. You’re a God when you’re the first. Anyone later is second best.

That has to suck big time. I think we had a poster here quite some time ago who had a relative with this. We pooh-poohed her/him at the time, as I remember, but it’s a real syndrome.

It must have been quite a surprise to Woody Guthrie when he heard that Bob Dylan was the first folk musician.

It must have been quite a surprise to Woody Guthrie, Cisco Houston, Burl Ives, and Pete Seeger when they heard that Bob Dylan was the first folk musician.

I didn’t say that he was the first folk musician. He wasn’t.

Woody Guthrie was one of Dylan’s idols. It was tragic that Woody was pretty much unaware of the world by the time Dylan became a public figure. Dylan even went to visit Guthrie at a nursing home at the time.

Woody Guthrie(praised be his name) was a great, F*ing GREAT early pioneer in the world of social protest. If I were about 10 years older at the time, I would have been out there with them on the barricades. Unfortunately, I was just too young.

Dylan, whatever his faults, made it rather a popular, somewhat mainstream type of protest which got picked up by a generation that Woody, unfortunately, didn’t. Timing is everything.

I have vinyl albums of the Weavers, Seegar, others. They were the beginning. Dylan got lucky and started the mainstream, popular, movement, which ultimately got the world to change.

God bless them all.

Dylan was not lucky. He wrote lyrics few can match and he did it for a long long time. Who the hell else could paint a picture better in the couple minutes of a record? He did a hell of a lot more than write protest songs. But he wrote great protest songs too.

I read a little while ago that Joni said in an interview that the popularity of Madonna was the turning point at which America became shallow and stupid - regardless of whether or not you think that’s true or not, I think it comes across bad for Joni, and she ends up looking, well, bitter.

Are you really surprised that she’s made it all the way to, wow, 67? She doesn’t look particularly decrepit as far as I can see.

Why should you be disconcerted that Joni Mitchell still has negative things to say about the popular music industry? ISTM that she wasn’t exactly starry-eyed about the biz even back when she wrote “Free Man in Paris” in 1974.

I don’t think Joni Mitchell is particularly deprived of fame or appreciation, but I don’t think that means she’s not entitled to dislike Bob Dylan or to criticize the music industry.

I also think that the OP may have been a bit misled by reading gossip columnists repeating her jab at Dylan from her 22 April LA Times interview, and ignoring most of the rest of what she said there. Read the whole interview, and I don’t think you’ll find that she comes across as a “bitter old lady” in general, just a thoughtful pessimist:

Joni Mitchell is a fine singer and performer, but being gracious has never exactly been one of her strengths. And she’s a second stringer compared to Dylan.

Now I’m confused.

Considering just one Dylan song (All along the watchtower) has over 40 covers by other artists I’d say Joni is a bit jealous.

Or Joan Baez.

No one ever said Dylan was the first folk musician. He was the first Dylan, which is another thing entirely. There have been approximately 23,594 Next Dylans.

[Any references to Dylan Thomas will be written off as arrant smartassery.]

It’s pretty common for talented people to also be a bit nutty.

Joni’s very talented, she’s also a bit of a fruitcake. So, what else is new?

There is a thing called professional jealousy that might be involved here.