The coma thing reminds me of something I only learned of recently. I’m sure most of you have heard of electroshock therapy.
But it was only recently I heard and read about Insulin shock therapy where depressives and especially schizophrenics were given overdoses of insulin in order to be put in a coma with a goal of helping them, quite fascinating actually.
There were positive results for some, not so much for others, mostly because of a lot of follow-up care but it’s amazing how far we have come from a lot of pseudoscience.
As far as his advice goes, some of it is good, but it reminds me of most Joe Rogan podcasts/guests (I think I first heard of him from there). Taken on their own, there are a lot of good 5-10 minute clips on Youtube about things like motivation, nutrition, sleep hygiene, etc that are useful if you only focus on the soundbites and the content of those clips without exploring deeper into philosophy or other beliefs.
Man, it’s so evident that those dismissing JBP haven’t been paying attention or simply second-hand reading his work through critics.
Get well, Dr. Peterson.
I would say you owe me ten minutes of my life back now, but in truth it’s only 8 minutes thirty seconds, because that was all I could get through without either cutting and running or throwing a brick through the monitor.
The killer thing is, I actually agree that it’s foolish to try and formalise the definitions of ‘privilege’ into a kind of laundry list of dimensions we talk about (race- sex- orientation- gender-ID- … and then we stop right there) and to ignore others, particularly wealth- and region- which are kind of huge. And if that was his point, well, fine, but if your talk is 95% sneering and 5% point (and even the “point” bit, kind of strawmanning) I don’t think you can say you’re contributing to civilized conversation
Well, sure, I agree that trying to restrict things to only a handful of dimensions would be foolish - but even the conversation around “White privilege” definitely discusses wealth, especially as it pertains to generational wealth but also the nature of transmitted lifestyles of successful wealth growth and management.
I disagree with some here that believe he’s a conman; I think he’s sincere.
The main issue at this point is that he thinks of himself as incredibly smart, to the point that he doesn’t need to research anything, as his intuition will deliver the answer.
You can see the difference, in that sometimes he’ll give particularly awkward or nonsensical ideas that leave interviewers lost for words and his audience scratching their heads. If he were just a conman, I think he would not say things to momentarily lose or confuse some of his audience like that. He says those things, because he believes them, because he hasn’t thought them through.
It is true though, that at this point he’s quite aware of who his audience is, so will restrict what he says to things that pander to that group. I think he truly believes all that white supremacist / sexist crap, but they may be a subset of what he really believes, or he may have doubts, but he knows not to mention anything his audience wouldn’t like.
I don’t think he’s a conman. I have ex-friends that I think are exactly like him - middle aged white men who did philosophy or classics or psych or lit PhDs at the local ivory tower uni, that in the old days might have meant they were set up for life in a sort of cosy sinecure. And then the world around them changed, the make-up of the universities changed, both in admin and students, the intellectual currents in their professions changed…and they just could not cope. And rather than question “AITA?”, they lash out at whatever they think is the cause. Maybe it’s postmodernism. Maybe it’s Marxism. Maybe it’s feminism. Maybe it’s critical race theory. Something is the reason they don’t get respect anymore (the main drug they crave)
And this kind of background is why he never really engages with counter-arguments. If you disagree with him on something, it must be because you belong to one of these groups he maligns. Your well is pre-poisoned. (There are some other influential thinkers that do a similar thing, but I won’t name them here as it will probably lead to tangents)
He was always a wealthy tenured professor at UofT but lying about Canada’s gender laws gave him a platform to sell his brand of self-help political conservatism to vulnerable youth who, in-turn, made him a pop intellectual rock star and filthy rich. Ever since, his self-help grifting never stopped: NYT best sellers, daily interviews with international media, tens of thousands of dollars of speaking fees, millions in free money as a monthly allowance via patreon by enamored fans.
Like a TV preacher all his failed business adventures and wealth generation enviably involves milking it from his flock. He might believe what he preaches only because grifters are too invested to honestly evaluate their predatory actions.
I’m with Mr. Dibble and Mijin, AFAICT he straight up believes he’s right, that the truth as he learned remains the truth and challenges thereto are BS.
That he may profiteer on that there is an audience receptive to him because THEY too see the “truth” they grew up with being challenged, is another story.
I’ve heard him twice - once on the Unbelievable? podcast, where I thought he was just an idiot.
Then I heard him in an extended conversation with Matt Dillahunty, where I realized that he’s a present-day Chauncey Gardiner (from the movie Being There). He says vague but stupid shit, which listeners then take and put their own interpretations on and think that what he said was profound.
And then the clincher was that he says Matt Dillahunty is NOT an atheist, because Matt acts morally and you can’t be an atheist and act morally.
I got his 12 Rules book a couple of years ago before I had ever even heard of the guy. If you’re looking for a laugh read the forward(or preface I don’t remember which) to that book. The dude literally just lists out how many upvotes he got on various Quora posts! What’s next? The acknowledgements will just be all the people that like a facebook photo he posted? I remember reading this and thinking I shouldn’t judge him too quickly. Even though Quora is a pseudointellectual circlejerk. I thought maybe there could be some interesting things to think about past the weird circlejerking and hyper-verbose style. Well I finished chapter 1 and returned the book. Later I learned how much of a character JP is.
What’s especially ironic is JP’s big thing is the whole ‘Clean your room’ thing. IE get your own life in order before you start critiquing others/the world. Well maybe he should take his own advice.
I know and respect smart people who are Jordan Peterson fans, but I’ve never actually heard him say anything I would consider intelligent. At best, he’s a less new-agey version of Deepak Chopra or something, just saying feelgood platitudes for his particular audience of young “rational” white dudes. At worst he is a holocaust denier who opines that the Nazis didn’t really do anything that bad. I don’t understand what people I respect see in him, but I guess we hear what we want to hear and see what we want to see.
We don’t have to pick just one. This whole benzo interlude is evidence that Peterson a) is a grifter who b) eats his own dogfood.
Back up a minute - Peterson has been selling the idea for years that there is a simple cure for addiction: Just find something better to do. Yep, that’s right. Take up a hobby and you’ll never need drugs again.
Back up another minute - Peterson’s daughter, Mikhaila gives health food advice (I suppose it goes without saying that she’s not a dietitian or nutritionist). She & her dad maintain that Jordan tried some apple cider vinegar and had an adverse reaction which was so severe that it left him with autoimmune disorder.
Mikhaila and Jordan claim that this autoimmune disorder was ultimately treated by eating an all-meat “carnivore” diet. (It also goes without saying that the pair have been trying to profit off their nutritional insights. She calls it The Lion Diet - just beef, salt & water.)
Supposedly, Jordan started taking to Klonopin because of anxiety brought on by his cider-induced autoimmune disorder. According to Mikhalia’s recent posts, the family realized that his benzo use had become an addiction after Peterson’s wife was diagnosed with cancer last spring.
Now, back up a third moment. Benzodiazpines work by altering your brain chemistry. They flood your brain with chemicals which make your brain’s built in GABA receptors calm down, providing waves of relaxation. But over time, your brain becomes reliant on the artificial drug. Which means that when your benzo wears off, your brain is left dry and there’s no soothing chemicals to latch on to the receptors. The brain can start to panic so thoroughly that it causes hallucinations and seizures.
This is the exact same mechanism that’s common in alcohol withdrawal. Both benzo and alchohol withdrawal can be fatal, as the brain can destroy itself with seizures. Both withdrawals need to be performed under medical supervision. Even so, it is said to be a long, painful process, even once the physical problem had ended.
As part of the medical process, it’s sometimes necessary at first to administer low doses of quick acting benzos in order to taper down. This may seem counter-intuitive, providing more benzos to a guy who’s trying to kick benzos, but the small doses of quick acting benzos (ativan, for example) can stop the seizure cycle and prevent brain damage. It also allows for a slower, more controlled, tapering. Benzo withdrawal is a well understood bit of medicine. It’s available all over the place in the west. It’s unpleasant and doesn’t solve the psychological addiction, but it will keep seizures from scrabbling your brains.
And the main thing of course is that you’re doing it all in a hospital under a doctor’s care. You can’t cold turkey this. There are no short, simple solutions - and Jordan’s whole gimmick is the short & the simple.
So that’s the backstory.
Which brings us to now when Mikhaila posted on YouTube about her father’s travails. Here’s the link -
Also here’s the link to the statement she provided the National Post, which is where Jordan Peterson publishes his columns:
The article goes on to say that Jordan Peterson was put in a medical coma for eight days and tried to cold-turkey his withdrawal symptoms. (Unlike those wimpy Western docs who tried to taper him off just like everyone else who kicks benzos.)
He has neurological damage from seizures endured while he was in the coma. (Because brave Russian Doctors have the courage not to treat side-effects!) It’s affecting his speech and his walking. It might be temporary. He’s taking anti-siezure medicine. All because he wanted to find a simple painless solution to his benzo addiction (which his daughter very much wants us to know was PHYSICAL not psychological.)
This is the most Jordan Peterson thing ever.
(ALso it wouldn’t surprise me if he pops up in three months touting the benefits of his carnivority. Grifters gonna grift.)
He is so smart and articulate, we need more people with his wisdom and courage to engage the issues of the day.
Apparently, he has been on anti-anxiety medications for years and when his wife was diagnosed with cancer he started on stronger stuff to cope. This led to a benzo addiction and as has been shared, that is really an awful process. His daughter seems like a believer in a lot of woo so hopefully he can get the help he really needs.