I’m not especially sensitive or I wouldn’t post here.
But your prior insinuation that I am a “simpleton” and a white surpemicist and someone who wants immigrants to prostrate themselves at my feet and remain dirt poor in the meantime was an over the top ridiculous. I was shocked by that accusation. Play word games all you want but bigot one of definitions of bigot is a prejudiced person and that’s clearly what you were unfairly accusing me of being.
I have no “streaks of arrogant bigotry” in me. While feeling that immigrants should learn the language of the country they immigrate to may be unpopular in this thread, it’s hardly an unpopular sentiment either in the rest of America or the rest of world. I certainly don’t care what other languages you speak in America just as long as least one of them is English. Given that there are hundreds of languages spoken here that simply makes things easier for most people. That sentiment doesn’t make me predjudiced or racist or bigoted or even particularly arrogant.
By your own definition an immigrant or someone who lives somewhere else long term and doesn’t acquire the language is a bigot because they’re clearly showing a strong partiality to their own group. Since you hate bigotry so much will you offer up the same outrage?
Fuck, hell and damn. NOWHERE have I said that I would take this woman’s child away.
I think that anyone who plans to live here for the rest of their life or visit for a long time should learn English. You can pretend that’s “arrogant bigotry” or some horrible bending “to the will of the majority,” (nevermind that most elections are based on that premise) but the real result of that decision isn’t going get anyone out of poverty.
Dodge all you want but the rant you reference was an unfair accusation of racism. If you don’t want people who disagree with you to call you a racist you should try practicing what you preach first.
It’s not dodging or wordplay. You are clearly mistaking what I meant and I’ve restated myself for your benefit many times. I still feel that you would rather the immigrant remain prostrate for your benefit, but you may feel free to disagree. I’ve never accused you of being a racist, nor a “white” supremacist, though I did call you “the mighty white American”, which has nothing to do with “white supremacy”, just American Supremacy and arrogance(I will apologize for overgeneralizing).
Once again, do not put words in my mouth, friend. I still think you’re a fucking bigot, and I’ve never called you a racist, nor have I even alluded to you being a racist, nor have I implied, inferred, or skirted the subject with wordplay.
You are engaging in bigoted behavior, pure and simple. Engage in dodging and wordplay all you want.
Feel free to call me a racist if it makes it all feel better. Unlike you, I personally don’t give a shit what you call me, mainly because I don’t have the burden of being a bigot, like yourself.
In light of my assholic comments above, I’d like to call a truce. We are never going to agree. We are going to continually butt heads on this matter, and we will only end up insulting each other for the sheer sport of it at this time. For the third or fourth time, I wasn’t inferring that you were a racist, and I’m sorry you took what I said to mean that, because it was the furthest thing from my intent.
I still disagree with you, and I still think you are wrong, but I see no point in endlessly turning circles of words around each other trying to prove our point to a party who isn’t listening.
Lib, one can not compare the two, and I think you know that. When we sign up here, we agree to terms and service. Those terms and service are specific in language. We form our own society or culture wherein our first language is English to facilitate moderating and communication.
Our country has many niche groups with different cultures and societies. Those different cultures have different practices, languages, religions, and customs. The state does not endorse any of them, and one need not know English to be a resident.
If we use a very specific definition of bigotry, then yes, they are. If we look at the differing facts surrounding each situation, then it becomes obvious that it is not bigotry. Nothing changes the facts here-“speak english or go back to Mexico!” is a statement containing pretty pure bigotry.
Okay. I guess. But now you’ve raised two more questions, and I like you quite much, so I don’t want to bother you unnecessarily. If you perceive that I am, just tell me and I’ll back off. But I do know that you are a man who will admit error when presented with a compelling argument, as am I. So… For one thing, whom are you quoting? Who was it who said, “speak english or go back to Mexico!”? Second, if the person you quoted had said, “speak Esperanto or go back to Seattle,” would he still be a bigot?
We agree to terms of service here because it is to our mutual benefit. The proprietors of the SDMB, who feel, rightly or wrongly, that they may be liable for things that are posted here, require that everyone post in English so they can moderate the forums without hiring translators. The argument for requiring permanent residents to learn English proceeds analogously. The United States government, whatever you may think of it, cannot govern people who do not speak English.
You seem to think that a country can be governed with total indifference to culture or custom. Laws embody values. Our laws are different in many significant ways from the laws of other countries. We require all residents to abide by the same laws, even if those laws conflict with the cultural or religious traditions of minority subgroups. Do you view this as tyranny? If not, why is imposing English on permanent residents different?
The state endorses English by writing the law in English. God forbid we ever get to the point where a non-English-speaker can mount a legal defense based on a faulty official translation of a law. Now that I’ve said it, it’s probably already happened.