Mods, I think this is a GQ, but if it turns ugly or becomes a GD or something, do whatever you have to do.
Corporal punishment for children is legal where I live providing no implement is used, and that the force is reasonable.
OK, now that’s out of the way…
Is it OK to smack my stepson when he’s being naughty?
A bit of background first: Me. As a child, I was almost never smacked. My parents prefered to just “let me know I’d screwed up”, and that seemed to work fine for me. I thought I’d use the same technique on any children of my own - until I met… My Stepson. He is three and a half. I’ve known him for about seven or eight months, which was when I started my relationship with his mother. She told me that not only did his natural father NEVER provide any form of discipline (physical or otherwise), but he’d lose his temper if she tried to do it as well. The result? When I met young Ben for the first time, he was absolutely out of control. I thought he had a disorder or something. He thought he was the boss of the house. He took no notice of his mother, let alone me.
An example: I’m watching the news with the TV remote resting loosely in my hand. Ben comes over and points to the TV because he wants to change the channel. I said ‘no’. Then he snatched the remote control from my hand, and changed the channel anyway. This earned him a stronger ‘no’, and I took it back. He then waited just outside my field of vision until I relaxed my grip on the remote, charged, grabbed it, ran like hell out into the backyard, and threw it over the back fence into a pile of weeds. That was the first time I smacked him.
Now, after a long and tiring six months, Ben is a well behaved kid. His mother permits me to smack him, and even thanked me for bringing him under control.
I only smack him after several warnings, and when I do, I try to be “surgical” about it. The smack is fairly light (he stops crying about ten seconds later, or when he forgets to), and I don’t show emotion when I do it. After he’s smacked, I consider the punishment over.
So, am I doing the right thing? I suspect I am, as I don’t think it’s always easy to explain things logically to a small child (ie. Don’t touch that remote control because it’s expensive, and replacements are hard to find… etc).
For the most part, he’s now a good kid. A little naughty like most three year olds. I rarely have to smack him now. Might be once a week maximum. He seems much more well balanced and happy than six months ago. Dare I say it, I think he even loves me!
But I still feel slightly guilty. I don’t really believe a little smack on the bum is going to turn him into a wife-beating, alcoholic, child molesting sociopath. It’s not… is it?
I’m a teacher, and while I doubt that I would strike a child even if I were permitted, I am SORELY tempted sometimes.
But there comes a point where being “reasonable” does not work with some kids. And it becomes necessary to focus their attention, and to let them know that they have done wrong.
There are a number of kids in my school who I believe would benefit greatly from a well timed smack.
The fact that the little bugger has warmed up to you as a result may be his way of “thanking” you for his newfound ability to be “good”. I think most kids really want to be good, and on some level are glad when you take measures to ensure such.
I’m pretty sure your question is more of an IMHO or GD type question, but I’ll let the mods decide that.
From your description of things, I think you’re doing a splendid job. As you say, it is legal to do what you’re doing, and you only smack him on the bum after a couple of warnings. Sounds good to me.
I mean, I was smacked as a kid and look how I - er, well, ok, I’m a bad example.
I brought mine up without hitting them and believe its the best way but I didn’t inherit a situation like you did. My wife, on the other hand, believed in spankings but whether they were administered depended more on her mood than the behavior. Yes, there were bitter arguments over this. It does not sound remotely like you are doing this.
I do believe that physical discipline can be damaging but so can the behavior you were describing so its a trade off. My only suggestion is that having gotten the child under some form of control you begin exploring alternative parenting tactics that will eventually eliminate the need.
From your description, highly dubious. Upbringing is important, so for the wife-beating part, he’ll need to see you routinely smack yours around. Likewise, start boozing it up routinely for the alcoholic part and…I’m going to stop there for obvious reasons.
Seriously–feeling slightly guilty over it is a good thing. If it were enjoyable for you, that’d be bad. But what you’ve described sounds precisely how physical discipline should be used–very sparingly, when other options aren’t going to work, but consistently (consistently != often) and firmly.
This is really more a thread for IMHO or GD. There’s not really any debate here yet, true, but knowing how these things go, I doubt that will last, so I’ll put it in GD preemptively.
I was smacked as a kid and learned what not to do real fast. I’ve friends who have kids who practice the new no smacking method and it takes ages for the word ‘no’ to sink into their little demented heads. Especially when they get older. In comparison to my greater number of friends who spank their kids, the ‘enlightened’ parent’s kids are brats. I don’t like telling them ‘no’ seven or eight times when they get around me and time outs for older kids mean nothing if they don’t want to obey. I mean, so they decide not to do your stupid time out, what are you gonna do if you don’t hit them? Remove privileges? What if they choose to exercise those privileges anyhow?
My folks did a lot of explaining to me as a kid, but when they said ‘no’ they meant it and if I acted up, a stinging slap across my bottom settled things in a hurry. I learned never to act up in public, like I find so many of today’s kids doing when with their folks, because Mom would deliver a swift, accurate, stinging slap of justice that shut me right up.
If I was being punished and slipped out, all hell broke loose if I got caught, which I did because my folks were alert. First came the lecture and then some hard spanking and I learned that if I disobeyed too much, pain was the result and I feared pain more than those lectures I tuned out anyhow.
If I had ever called the cops on my folks for spanking me, if the cops were screwed with the crazy laws we have today, and they got arrested or cited for child abuse, I think they would have sent me to military school and if not, home would not have been very happy.
Kids today find it too easy to call cops on their folks.
I saw a cop show where the Mom called in the cops to talk to this little, sullen porker of a 9 year old who kept slipping out and staying out all night and they gave him the #4 lecture. He’d been to family counseling, psychiatric evaluation, and whatever else poor Mom could afford. She was divorced and the kid had smacked her a few times.
My solution, grab chubby by the scruff of the neck and turn his butt red a few times to let him know you mean what you say. He’d not go slipping out at night too often after that.
I got bodily punishment as a kid when I needed it. I was not abused, but my parents were very old-fashioned and a bit strict. They didn’t take ANY crap from us children. Nor should they have.
Used On Naughty Creaky Then:
Wooden Spoon
Belt
Paddle (the kind that formerly had a rubber band and a little red ball attached to it)
I’ve only spanked my stepdaughter twice (she’ll be 6 this weekend). The first time I apparently didn’t hit her as hard as she was used to because she didn’t cry at all and asked if in the future she could get three spankings from me instead of one from her mom (she’s quite the bargainer). The second time I slapped her harder and DIDN’T use an implement - I spanked her with the back of a brush the first time because I have big hands and arms and was uncertain of my ability to smack her hard enough to sting without hitting hard enough to possibly bruise her.
She’s much more obedient with me than her mother, even though her Mom spanks her more. I think it’s because my wife tends to not spank her consistently, doesn’t do it for certain violations, just when the kid’s whining gets out of control and pushes her over the edge. The kid whines to her mother a lot because she tends to tune her out and often doesn’t respond to her until after she has asked several times and has started whining, which trains her to think that whining is the way to get her Mom’s attention. When things aren’t going her way and her Mom IS paying attention she often continues to whine and argue. The child has learned with me that repetition does NOT pay off, if she asks for something I will tell her then and there whether or not she can have it, and that’s my final answer. I explain to her logically why and why not when she asks (‘Your Mom would be mad at me if I let you go to a friends house she didn’t know’ or ‘You have to eat it all because we want you to have a balanced diet’) and because of this she acts her age or maybe a little older when it’s just me, but as soon as Mom gets home she reverts to being a 3 year old, even with some toddler-esque speech patterns.
Not a big fan of corporal punishment. Of course, when I was a kid, punishment did not necessarily follow actually having done something wrong. My mother only beat me when she was trying to extract a confession of something I hadn’t done, or trying to get me to admit to lying when I was telling the truth. After turning my backside read with a metal spatula, she would say, "Think about it, " and shut me up in my room. I would think about it, and I still couldn’t remember having committed the crime of which I had been accused.
My stepfather would beat me just because he was in a bad mood and felt like hitting someone. My mom allowed this, because if he was hitting me, it meant he wasn’t hitting her (he started beating my mother after I left home.) His tactic was to get into my face and start scraming at me over some minor offence, say, leaving a light on after I left the room, or leaving my schoolbooks on the kitchen table, until I couldn’t help but say something back, then he’d hit me for having a “smart mouth.” He tried to draw blood whenever possible. When I had braces, he would always hit me in the mouth, after I got my ears pierced, if I was wearing earrings, he would go for the earlobes. Many times, I was beaten by him for something my sister (his daughter with my mother) had done. Similar to my mother, he would say, “I’m not punishing you because you did it, I’m pusinshng you for lying about it.”
Having gotten that off my chest, I can’t say I’m entirely opposed to corporal punishment. When a kid is too young to understand reason, a smack on the backside accompanied by a firm “no” can be very effective in getting the message across. For an older child, CP should be reserved for cases of deliberate, defiant misbehavior. It should never be done in anger, and it should be very clear to the child what the pusishment is for.
I was an easy kid. All it would have taken to keep me in line was simply being told not to do something, or, if I had already done it, not realizing I was doing anything wrong, not to do it again. A lot of kids aren’t that easy.
I must say I have always felt opposed to corporal punishment for kids, but while reading your thoughtful OP I felt totally on your side.
I think what others have said is correct, and that if you are firm and consistent, you could bprove to be a strong influence for good in your step-son’s life.
And for him to have somebody strong in his life to love and to love him is a pretty good start to have.
I think it is HIGHLY inappropriate for a stepparent to take over as the primary disciplinarian. You don’t say whether you live with Ben and his mother or whether you are a visitor. If you live with Ben, then your job is to support Ben’s mother to develop effective discipline techniques.
And I also think that smacking should be the last resort. Was it your last resort or your first resort? What other techniques did you try? If the kid has watched his parents fight over discipline, then it is incredibly important that his mother take back her control of the situation. She’s definitely in it for the long run - you’re not doing her or Ben any favours by doing her job.
I agree overall with the posters who felt that properly administered discipline as you described is no problem. I was spanked myself as a child, and seem to be a fairly functional adult.
Since you were concerned enough to solicit the opinions of others, I have just a few things to add.
The stepparent issue: Primaflora brought up an important issue. From the OP, it seems that you have good communication with the mother. Are you absolutely positive that the mother supports this because she thinks it is a good idea, or could there be an element of wanting to please you? She should definitely be involved in the disciplinary process in some way.
Also, I can’t believe I’m about to become the language police, but I think it’s important to teach (by example) the difference between smacking (something we should never do to others) and spanking (something an adult in a parental role might prescribe for a child). As in, it is NOT ok for the child to turn around and smack the dog or another child.
Thanks for everyone who has posted their opinion. I value them all, although I guess things are not much clearer. And thanks Chronos for moving this thread to the forum to which I should, in hindsight, have originally have posted it.
It seems, as I suspected, that there is no clear, definitive answer to this one. Searches on the net resulted in unpleasantly biased for or against viewpoints, which is why I decided to consult the great Doper gene pool in the first place.
Primaflora, I guess you gave me my own “smack on the bum” which maybe I needed. Yes, I take issue with you on some points, but you are right in that I perhaps did not give enough background, so at the risk of boring you all, here it is:
I live with Ben full time. Ben calls me “Daddy”. Being called this is nice in many ways, but it also worries me a little. My view is that when Ben is old enough to understand, I want him to know exactly where his natural father and I fit into the scheme of things. If he decides, “hey, you aren’t my daddy”, then so be it. That is his, and his natural father’s absolute right, regardless of my own opinions of this man. I will NEVER obstruct that. Actually, Ben’s calling me “Daddy” was his mother’s idea, not mine.
I also come from a broken home. My own stepfather is a person for whom I hold a great deal of respect. He told me straight off (admittedly I was much older than Ben is, and could understand), “I’m not your dad. I can’t take that away from your own father. I have my own reasons not to like your father, but I won’t let them get in the way of your father / son relationship. I can’t be your dad, but I will raise you as I raise my own children, and I will be a good friend to you.” I think that is a wonderful attitude, and I am trying to model my own relationship with Ben on it. And yes, my stepfather did (rarely) give me a smack when I needed it.
Primaflora, if you take note of the timeline in my OP, you will see that there was a period of one or two months between the time I first met Ben, and the first time I smacked him. This was because I share your reservations regarding a stepparent administering discipline (especially of the corporal kind). I was VERY reluctant to provide this discipline, and only did so when it became obvious that it was needed, and that it would be welcomed by Ben’s mother. There were many, many times within this one or two month initial period when I was itching to impose my own thoughts on child rearing upon Ben’s relationship with his mother, but I held back nonetheless.
A few thoughts on Ben’s natural father. I have never spoken to the man. I will do so for the first time tomorrow (more on this later). I have tried to be impartial when my girlfriend Kim has complained to me about him. I have always dutifully mouthed the “but whatever you think, he IS Ben’s father” bit. But I must admit I don’t hold a particularly high opinion of this guy. He lives in the same suburb as Kim and I, yet he NEVER comes to visit Ben, or even telephones him. Kim and Ben met him by chance at the local shopping mall, and Ben’s father did not acknowledge him. Ben did not appear to recognise his father. Ben’s third birthday passed without any contact from his father. Ben’s father does not provide ANY financial assistance to his upbringing.
I may be “just a stepparent”, but I have taken over the duties and responsibilities which I believe his father should provide. I’m the guy who plays ball with Ben, helps him go to the toilet, cooks food for him, hugs him when he falls down, etc etc. No, I don’t claim to be a hero for doing this stuff - if I love his mother, I SHOULD be doing it - , but I do believe it gives me the right to be a disciplinary model for him.
Ben is a smart kid. He’s also a late developer. At the time of my first contact with him, he was nearly three. He wasn’t talking at all, he had a baby bottle constantly hanging out of his mouth, he was in nappies (diapers), and he slept in the same bed as his mother. Now, he is talking, toilet trained, and sleeps on his own. The baby bottle is on the way out too. And yes, I am so bold as to give myself a lot of the credit for this.
I live in Australia. Both Ben’s parents were born in Vietnam. Ben’s mother is an Australian citizen, but Ben’s father is not. He is in danger of being deported to his home country. In desperation, he took Kim to a Family Dispute Tribunal (one step short of a court of law), claiming she REFUSED to allow him access to Ben. The tribunal awarded him the right to see Ben every Saturday. He could have achieved this simply by telephoning Kim, and saving us all a lot of time and money, but he wanted the legal documents saying he was a carer of a small child, so he could show them to the immigration deprtment. OK, so I can’t prove that - call me a cynical bastard. Anyway, tomorrow is that first Saturday. In this, I have a problem: Kim will be working when Ben’s father comes and knocks on our door. Bearing in mind that the tribunal awarded him the right to take Ben out every Saturday (including an overnight stay), and that Ben didn’t even recognise his father last time they met, THE KID IS GOING TO BE ABSO-FUCKING-LUTELY TERRIFIED WHEN THIS STRANGER COMES AND TAKES HIM AWAY!!! So, I asked Kim to call his father and explain this. He agreed to stay in our house for a few hours on the first occasion. I will be present.
If he changes his mind, as he has the right to do, Kim is in legal trouble if she refuses him access. But, fuck it, Ben is my stepson, and I love him as my own; if he doesn’t want to go with this guy, I won’t force it. I’ll forcibly eject Ben’s father from our house myself if I have to. Grrrrrr. I don’t want this crap, I am happy to have an amicable relationship with Ben’s father, but there are limits. Another “grrrrrr”.
I agree that smacking should be a last resort. I am smacking Ben less and less as time goes by. My first smack-free month will be a happy milestone for me. I am serious in my intention to develop a relationship in which I NEVER have to smack Ben at all. But, I now believe I do have the right to smack him if he needs it.
Also, Kim was very upfront with me about being somewhat lacking in the area of discipline. I believe I have helped her to be firm with Ben as a successful byproduct of my own techniques with him. She used to lose her temper with him (Ben took this as a victory); now she has adopted my approach, and is shouldering more and more of the disciplinary burden herself.
So, that’s basically it. I’m in this for the long haul. Ben’s father appears to be in it reluctantly, and for his own ulterior motives.
Hope that helps.
And thanks Redboss mate, ANZAC Day was a bloody ripper. Hope yours was too.
Physical violence may have been the best way to get the upper hand in this unique situation but I would strongly urge that you phase out hitting as a means of reaching this child as soon as possible.
There is no evedence that hitting a child is benificial.
There is evidence that hitting a child is harmful.
TheLoadedDog: It doesn’t sound like the degree or severity of the corporal punishment you inflict is abusive. But if it bothers you, have you considered yelling at your step-son instead, i.e. letting him know in no uncertain terms just how angry with him you are when he misbehaves? Maybe picking him up and hauling him off to his room or to the “time-out” area?
Yelling is alm,ost worse than spanking because it’s easier behavior for a child to emulate. Kids who yell at their friends tend not to have many friends.
Anger has little or no place in disciplining children. If a parent disciplines this way it is them who need the time out.
I was against spanking kids for many years. Nothing could sway me from my stance. Then, something happened to make me change my position. I had two children.
I am opposed to violence against children (and everyone else). However, I don’t consider an attention-getting swat on the backside “violent”. Saying “Don’t hit your kid” to someone who’s doing what The Loaded Dog is doing is ludicrous. I may tap a behind at my house once a month, and no way is anyone gonna convince me that I’m doing my kids, ages 3 and 4, any injustice or harm.
To the OP: Kudos to you for being a responsible guy with the stepson. It sounds like discipline (yup, I’m aware that spanking does not mean discipline) and authority is exactly what he needs. I have a stepson, too. Unfortunately, mine was 8 when we first met, so problems that have come along have not been easy to deal with. Best of luck.
I completely agree with Ned. Do not yell at your stepson, especially when he is so young! I’m not a parent, but trust me on this one: a calm swat with an explanation of the punishment will be better in the long run than screaming. Trust me.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes with Ben and his dad.
