Whoops. I mean I wouldn’t say that customer service isn’t on the decline.
I better start drinking this coffee faster!
I think part of the problem is that many of these people in customer service can not AFFORD to “better themselves.” If you’re working 40+ hours a week at Mickey D’s just to get by, and you’re a single mom on assistance, you’re not going to have the time, the money, or the energy to go to school on top of this.
Besides, what if someone is in customer service working his or her way to go to school?
Or you have someone like me, who is probably going to have to go back into it, because I just cannot find a better job at this point?
It isn’t about “getting out of there and making yourself better”. People should still treat customer service workers respectfully. (And yes, lezlers, I KNOW you’re not saying they shouldn’t.)
I knew that you didn’t mean it to sound that way.
Of course. But also, it’s appropriate to bitch and piss and moan about how shitty the attitude is towards service workers, don’t you think?
That’s true. I know several people who are more “people persons.” They like being a cashier, or waitress, or whatever, because they like working with people. They have a husband or whatever that earns more money, so they are free to waitress and enjoy working with customers. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact, we need more people who enjoy working in such jobs.
And they shouldn’t have to receive it, so they should (along with tolerating their job enough to not snap at customers) bitch about it at places like this. Because it’s wrong to be treated that way.
Education, calling individuals on it when you see them doing it. How do you stop people from having homophobic views or racist views, if they don’t even know they have them? Same thing. Some people will never be reached, but if they do it out of ignorance, then they can be reached. Or at least some attempt should be made.
No, no, I think if you had a “smug” attitude, it would have come out by now, on these very boards. In real life, the ignorantly smug will (or should) have friends “intervene” and set them straight. But just saying “thanks” and “hi” (unless you really over-gesture and talk really loud and slow like everyone’s a moron) is not going to be enough to give anyone the idea that you are “condescending.”
If, however, you overexplain something to a service worker (because they couldn’t possibly know, could they?) or assume that they have no interests or life outside of the job and imply that in your conversation, yeah, that’s condescending.
<long rambling hijack> I am reminded of when I went to college—it was one of those “rich kid” colleges, but I was from a blue collar household. My dad was a postal worker. The school was in a bad part of town (downtown LA) and my dad, not wanting me to take the bus home in that bad area, would pick me up after he got off of work and give me a ride.
While he was waiting in the school lounge, waiting for me to get off class, my dad got to know, and then became friends with the janitors and the security guys. And then I became friends of these guys too, thanks to my dad. These guys told my dad stuff; how they were treated like they were lesser human beings, how they were “looked down on” by the students, etc. I never knew that these guys felt this way until I got to know them (though my dad). And, (won’t go into the long story of it) because these security guys and janitors considered me a “friend,” one of them actually was able to do me a really good turn once. Something that they’d never have even thought of doing for one of the other students (not that they would have been obligated to do it).
I guess my point with that long rambling tale is this: you just never know what’s in the back of people’s minds. They seem happy, they seem contented with their lot, but they see how the world views them, and it hurts. The security guys and the janitors at my old school provided a valuable service, and they didn’t deserve to be treated badly by other people. They always seemed to be good sorts of fellows to me.
I’ve just a couple of points I’d like to make. Up until a few years ago, my mother was a teller at a local bank. Part-time jobs there paid minimum wage and did not have a fixed weekly schedule. From what I’ve heard, that’s not all that uncommon at the bottom of the service sector. If you don’t have a set schedule, taking classes can be difficult, and not all jobs will respect your need to have time off at a fixed time. At that level, money is tight. Even if one can find the time to arrange for grants, etc., there’s still a matter of textbooks and other school supplies to be bought, not to mention transportation to and from classes. Yes, these expenses can be minimized, but on the other hand income from a 20-odd hour a week minimum wage job is also rather minimal. Yes, I do realize I’m talking about a worst-case scenario here.
Second, several years ago, I worked for a small manufacturing plant. When they hired me after 13 months of temping for them, they mentioned they paid educational benefits, including textbooks, and I immediately signed up. Every so often, we’d wind up talking about these benefits at work. I remember a coworker saying “You must think I’m really stupid for not doing this.” I didn’t. Most of us on this board are highly intelligent and articulate people with a natural inclination for learning and education. Most people in that plant weren’t. For someone who may have struggled through high school, who associates learning with drudgery rather than pleasure, the prospect of going back to school for years doesn’t seem likely to provide a payoff that’s worth the effort. Going back to school is seen as a full-time job. It’s also not the first thing which comes to mind. Here’s an example. People in some areas of this plant apply for an apprenticeship program which would lead to higher pay. To get into this program, you had to pass a certain test which included some math skills. People didn’t apply for this program because they thought they wouldn’t be able to pass the math portion. While they knew about the educational benefits, it didn’t occur to them that they could use those to pay for a class to bring their math up to the level it needed to be at for them to pass the test. I think to them it was a sort of “You either know it or you don’t/You’re either smart or stupid” mindset.
Also, lezlers, even though it’s been nearly 20 years since I worked retail, please believe me that people do get tired and their feet do hurt after 12 hour days. It also isn’t easy when you’ve finished college with your degree all shiny and new and you can’t find a better job because the economy stinks and maybe the engineering majors were right efter all. I was never rude, but sometimes smiles came a bit harder. Back when I was working in Japanese tourism, there were a few times when I’d check clients into their hotels at 1:00 am and be back on the job at 6:00 or 7:00 am the following morning looking after clients who were returning to Japan. On one notable occaision, it was 5:00 am. I think I smiled and acted professionally, trying to keep up the illusion that Hawaii is paradise, but I was definitely tired!
CJ
Okay.
First off, Guin and Siege, you both seem to be forgetting that I worked my way through college in customer service jobs. At one time, I worked three jobs while attending school. I didn’t even get financial aid because I didn’t want to owe after I graduated (I went to a State school, so it wasn’t that expensive). I don’t say this to pat myself on the back, I say it because both of you seem to think I’ve got no idea how hard it is to go to school and work in the service sector, or don’t know of the many reasons why some people think they can’t. I do. I’ve worked with a lot of middle aged women in the service sector with kids who were also taking classes at the local J.C. Many of them single moms. Think up all the hypothetical scenerios you want, there are few reasons why someone could not go to school. Please note, I’m not saying every one in the service sector has to get an education, I’m only referring to those who want out. I’m obviously not referring to those already in school Guin, what would be the point of my “get an education if you want out” argument if I was?
Yosemitebabe, what can I say? I completely agree with you. Thank you very much for keeping an even tone and having a civilized discussion with me about this, I very much respect you as a poster and a person.
Oh, and Siege, I’ve worked many 12 hour days on my feet, and have worked schedules like you posted about, while in school. I do know what it’s like, I’ve been there.
Well, then, you know exactly what we’re talking about.
Not everyone is up to going back to school. Just because you did it, and some people you know did it, doesn’t mean everyone can.
I am genuinely sorry, but that wasn’t the impression I got from your posts. One question. When you were working 3 jobs, did you have the same schedule week-in, week-out so you could schedule other activities around them? Look, back at that manufacturing plant, I was one of the people saying that the company’s educational benefits “are a ticket out of here and they’re paying for it!” I was also raised on the theory that there’s no such thing as “can’t” only “chooses not to”.
On the other hand, it’s easier for a single, former honor student living with her parents to go back to school than someone with a husband and kids who may have hated every minute of it. I’ve little tolerance for whining almost none for bad service, but I do know that what looks easy for me may be very hard for someone else and vice versa.
No offense was intended.
CJ
Guin, will all due respect, how many times do I have to say this? I’m referring to those who want to get out of the industry. If they want to get out, but don’t feel “up” to going back to school, well, all I can say is stop bitching. That’s like complaining nonstop about having a headache, but refusing to take anything for it. Bitch all you want, as long as you’re doing something to help the situation.
Siege, no offense taken. Actually, my schedules were pretty much set at all of my jobs, at my request. Most jobs will let you have a set schedule if you’re in school, if not, chances are there’s another one out there that will. Service jobs aren’t all that hard to come by, in my experience. I was waitressing, worked at a makeup counter and worked on campus. Probably why it took kme 7 years to graduate. But I did. And I moved out when I was 18, so I never had the luxery of living with my folks either.
I’m all for venting, but like I said to Guin, usually only if you’re doing something to better the situation. You know those people who bitch and bitch about the same situation and don’t do anything to change it, even though they’re perfectly capable? They’re sure annoying, aren’t they?
That’s where I’m coming from, anyway.
Forgot to mention, my roomate in college did the same thing. 3 jobs. Makeup counter, bartended and worked on campus. So it’s not like I was an oddity or anything. We used to joke around that we led parallel lives, she was just one step up on the “cool” ladder than I was, because she bartended while I waitressed and she worked at a sex ed org on campus, I worked at a community service center.
lezlers, glad we are on the same page. 
Regarding going back to school: I think there are all kinds of people, as stated by others here, and not all of them are “college material.” In my last job (which I recently left because it was becoming increasingly miserable), there were some people working there that did not seem like they would do well in college. I thought they were bright, sweet people, but they struggled on the (very easy) tests we took during the training portion of our jobs, and they admitted that they hated school and didn’t ever want to go back.
It was hard for me at first to comprehend that there are perfectly bright, capable people who are not “cut out” for an advanced education, but they are out there. (I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them had undiagnosed learning disabilities, though.) In some cases, I thought these people did very well in the job, showed great “horse sense” and probably were more well-suited for some duties that a more “intelligent” person (who was not endowed with “horse sense”). These are not dumb people, just people that are not cut out for college, for whatever reason.
There are also some people who are of a “certain age” and cannot comprehend ever changing their circumstances in life. I think they are mistaken in believing that they can’t change things, but it’s difficult trying to convince them of that. And, there are some people who just won’t try to improve their situation, even though they have the time and resources. But they’d rather not. They’d rather watch Jerry Springer and bitch about their lot in life. This latter type of person I don’t have much sympathy for, needless to say.
I also saw some coworkers whose life was so full of obligations and duties that I don’t see how they would have time to go to school, or concentrate on studying. Add several squalling kids into the mix, and it’s nigh onto impossible, unless one has a spouse that is willing to take over some of the duties (and a lot of spouses are not willing to do that).
For instance, I am currently enrolled in a class (that I hope will get me a much better job) that is mostly held online. One of the students had to (very reluctantly) drop out of the course because she had way too many duties at home, which included: running a farm (in a rural, isolated area), taking care of 6 small kids and homeschooling them, taking care of the house, and so forth. I don’t think the husband was available to help much with the SIX kids, he is probably too busy with the damned farm! This poor woman felt so bad having to drop out, but she just didn’t have time. I wish her well and hope she can take up the course later.
I think it’s easier to hold several jobs and go to school when you are young and don’t have several kids, but things are totally different when the kids are added to the mix. Unless you have a great support system (family, helpful spouse, neighbors) it can be really difficult.
I agree with people who ARE capable of going back.
However, with your “headache analogy”, I get some pretty nasty migraines from time to time. I found that Excedrin Migraine stopped them cold. HOWEVER, I also found that while it got rid of the migraine, it gave me an upset stomach, which didn’t really help (the aspirin).
So, it depends on their reasons for not going back, then, is that correct? It may be that they’re lazy, it may be other things.
Either way, we all need to bitch every once in a while. Holding stuff in isn’t healthy.
That’s totally correct, Guin. I’ll admit, there are some people that just can’t go back to school, they just don’t have the time, like Yosemitebabe’s example of the woman with the farm and 6 kids. Those are very rare instances, though. I’m thinking more along the lines of people like I_Dig_Bad_Boys (I know you’re very familiar with her frequent rants). People like that I have no sympathy for, sorry. I also totally agree that we need to bitch every once in awhile, to stay sane! A good rule of thumb (for me anyway) though is that if you find yourself bitching about the same thing all the time, you should probably start thinking about ways to change it. I think that would be much healthier in the long run.