Just learned about "Nonenal." Not a happy discovery

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Let me say first that I came across “noneal” while browsing amazon. I was looking at bar soaps, that is, soaps that come in bar form (as opposed to liquid), not soap for cleaning bars.

Here is an AI (Gemini) description:

Nonenal is a natural, chemical compound produced when omega-7 fatty acids on the skin oxidize, causing a distinct, musty, greasy, or grassy “old person smell” commonly appearing after age. It is not related to poor hygiene, but rather aging-related skin changes, and is difficult to remove with traditional soap because it is not water-soluble.

Key Aspects of Nonenal Odor

  • Causes: The body produces more omega-7 fatty acids and less natural antioxidant protection as it ages, resulting in increased oxidation of these acids, especially after age 40.

  • Description: It is often described as a greasy, musty, or “grassy” scent.

  • Persistence: It does not wash away easily with regular soap and water because it is not water-soluble, tending to linger on skin, clothing, and bedding.

  • Contributing Factors: Hormonal changes (like menopause) and stress can increase its production

…

It is important to note that this scent is not an indicator of poor hygiene but rather a natural physiological process.

My bold.

After age 40?? Are you freaking kidding me??

And:

You generally cannot smell 2-nonenal (the compound often called “old person smell”) on yourself due to olfactory adaptation. Because your brain filters out familiar, constant, or gradual scents to remain alert for new smells, you become “nose blind” to your own body odor, even though others may detect it.

Bold in original.

For those people of any age who are opposed to AI, distrust it, and believe it is the voice of Satan, here is the Wikipedia entry:

Gee, another great thing about getting old.

Apparently there are soaps–bar soaps, in fact–formulated to deal with this smell. Here is an amazon link.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nonenal+soap

Read the various reviews to make a choice if you think this product might explain why people cover their faces and turn away when you enter a room. (:thinking: I have an idea where we might ship a case… if we gave a rat’s ass.)

I have to go now to choir practice at the community college where I sing in a roomful of 20/30-somethings. I’m actually 10 years older than the teacher. I took a shower this morning and washed my hair, but suddenly I feel quite self-conscious.

:nose:t4: :person_white_hair:t4:

2

I have no sense of smell, so things like this worry me. Auuugh! I’m over forty too!

3

Expensive stuff to take care of the problem. Wouldn’t anything reasonably abrasive scour it off, like Pumice Soap (think old Lava or equivalent)? How about a Loofah? Or sandpaper?

4

Thank you Covid!

5

I have (or had - I think it is decreasing somewhat with age and/or maybe a Covid bout) a great sense of smell but never noticed “old person smell” on others when I was young. Not that I spent lots of time with elderly people, but I was around them some, including going to nursing homes as a Girl Scout/choir member to visit and entertain.

Now that I am old myself, it terrifies me to think I might have it.

6

Okay, I’m skeptical. A study suggested maybe this compound causes old-person smell and there’s a cottage industry of products to fix this problem.

I blame nobody for feeling paranoid but this feels like a racket to me.

7

YMMV. Or not.

8

I’m around old people quite a bit here at The Home, and don’t believe I’ve noticed it, even in the close proximity of an elevator. I’ve always had a fairly acute sense of smell, but perhaps it’s degraded somewhat.

9

I’m skeptical. Growing up, the “old ppl smell” was stale pee, not some vague grassy oily scent. Pee, because those pelvic floor muscles ain’t what they used to be and a little bit always dribbles out after you’ve finished your business, no matter how carefully you shake and/or wipe.

10

Same, except i was aware of “old person smell”. But it’s not that strong, it is related to hygiene (that is, it’s much more obvious on people who bathe less or wear the same clothes over and over) and it’s not terribly unpleasant. Young adult smell (the odor of teens who have recently hit puberty) is much stronger and harder for the person to avoid.

Eh, lots of things aren’t water soluble but come off fine with soap. That’s the beauty of soap, it makes stuff water soluble.

My advice is not to worry about it.

11

Scouring will slough it off a surface whether it’s water soluble or not

12

I can both believe it is real and not be arsed to be concerned about it. Guess what? If I am olfactory adapted to it on me I am also adapted against smelling it on my wife and she on me, and all my peers 40 or older are too.

Youngins can identify a faint sweet grassy smell on me and everyone 40 and up? That’s fine. I’m not ashamed of living long enough to smell the way I am supposed to smell at my age. Being able to notice and being aware of it are also different things. I have no recollection of noticing a different older folk smell outside of nursing home settings.

13

Definitely. The only reason I made it through my son’s adolescence was because, since I had him late, I had several friends who had been there before me and had already related their stinky teenager smell stories to me. So I was prepared, and knew it would pass.

14

Despite typical USA hygiene practices I sometimes notice something that smells like old people smell on me. WHich was easy to recognize from my time with late aged MIL at the Home.Mostly from the general armpit region and ordinary soap, deodorants, or anti-perspirants do nothing.

After a shower I tried taking a small amount of isopropyl in a cupped hand and scrubbing the area with my hand. Easy, quick, cheap, and totally effective.

15

I’m not panicking yet. The non-AI reference said “one study suggests” that the smell is caused by 2-nonenal. I’m more inclined to believe that, to the extent that old people smell exists, it is a combination of things, most (or all) of which are amenable to regular washing with regular soap.

I am 76, my husband is 78, and neither of us has it. My husband is Japanese, as it happens, and is very sensitive to smells, and I am sure he would tell me if he could detect any smell at all on me. As for his smell, it is always very neutral unless he is wearing scent. Our bodies and clothes are clean, and I am not worried.

16

I mean, anyone looking at me can tell that I’m old. My hair is gray, and while I’m not yet very winkled, my skin doesn’t have that youthful resiliency it used to. If i also have a barely noticable odor that signals that same thing, so what?

If many of you didn’t ever notice it when you were young, most young people won’t notice it, either. And if they do, so what? Just have decent general hygiene and no one is going to mind

17

There are many topics that we discuss on this board that are likely to elicit the response, “so what”? Just sayin’.

18

But several people in this thread said they are worried about it. I don’t think it’s something one should worry about. :woman_shrugging:

19

The makers of AXE of course turned this into millions in market value.

20

Soap is not a cleansing agent. It’s function is to encapsulate dirt. That’s why you don’t want to use soap on poison ivy. It just moves it around making things worse.