"Just stop eating."

[Stranger_On_A_Train]

@Jayn_Newell

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t it a good thing to eat breakfast, and to spread out your food intake through the day, to keep your metabolism up?

Yes; you want to maintain a consistent blood sugar level which will prevent insulin spiking and trigger hunger binges; this is best done by consuming moderate amounts of complex carbohydrates (whole wheat flour or whole grains) that break down slowly rather than refined carbs and sugar that breaks down quickly. You also need the requisite number of fats to assist in digestion, and of course some amount of proteins (a total of 20-25%) of your total intake for maintenance of muscle and structural tissue.

Dietary balance isn’t just a matter of calories in/calories out; aside from the need for a balanced carbohydrate/lipid/protein intake, there is also the issue of satiation; the average person needs to consume about 2-3 lbs of food per day to feel full; with calorie-dense foods, or carbohydrate-rich foods that break down quickly, this can easily add up to several thousand calories. Something like fresh raw vegetables or popcorn, on the other hand, takes up a lot of bulk but has a low caloric density, which contributes to a sense of fullness and helps to moderate hunger (again, provided that you are getting sufficient nutritional intake). A common Okinawan practice is also to eat only up to “80% sated” at a meal, as the stomach takes time to feel filled. Starting a meal with a soup, vegetable salad, or a low-calorie appetizer helps to reduce overconsumption of the main course. (When eating out I general get a half-portion or plan to take half of the entree in a take-home bag to enforce this.)

Focusing on weight is, as noted by others, not a great metric, especially if you are exercising at the same time; if you are replacing relatively bulky subcutaneous fat (around the middle) with denser muscle tissue, you are obviously more healthy and you are increasing your ability to consume and utilize excess calories even at the same overall weight. And BM indexes and other rule-of-thumb numbers are just rough, general guidelines, not hard and fast rules about what you should weight. Your appropriate weight will be based on a number of factors, including skeletal type, natural breast cup size (for women), activity level, et cetera. 100 lbs + 5 lbs/in in excess of 60 inches is obviously an absurd measure. And obviously “just stop eating” isn’t a viable plan in either the long term or short term; starvation diets are rarely effective or medically recommended.

As indicated above, large servings of vegetables and fruits are highly recommended, but I find it difficult to feel completely sated without some animal protein (and accompanying fats) at some point during the day. I don’t know if you’re eating vegan patties and foods because you are vegetarian/vegan (which is just fine if you are, and probably healthier) or because of the lower calorie density, but if you do eat meat you might trade for a small amount of real lean meat and couple of large sides of vegetables or complex whole grains.

As for your mother, she clearly as what we like to euphemistically refer to as “issues”, or in less polite company, “batshit insane.” (I believe the technical term is Guanoneurological Stress Disorder but I find that it doesn’t have the same ring to it.) Given her previous experience, I wouldn’t even discuss your diet with her lest it trigger some kind of repressed head spinning and pea-soup-vomiting reflex a la The Exorcist.

Good luck to you.

Stranger

[lobotomyboy63]

Another artifact of “modern living” that helped me—individual portions. WW will teach you what a serving of chicken should look like for example, but I don’t trust my eye.

So for example I love cheese but if I bring home a block, that’s danger zone. But now we have those individually packaged/portioned foods (can you say “Laughing Cow”? OMG!). They allow you to have ONE, satisfy the craving, and not have the excuse of a large, already-opened, beckoning (try ‘TAUNTING’), unregulated stockpile in the fridge. Oh you can open another, but the wrapper of shame will proclaim your crime…

[lobotomyboy63]

@Stranger On A Train

As for your mother, she clearly as what we like to euphemistically refer to as “issues”, or in less polite company, “batshit insane.” (I believe the technical term is Guanoneurological Stress Disorder but I find that it doesn’t have the same ring to it.) Given her previous experience, I wouldn’t even discuss your diet with her lest it trigger some kind of repressed head spinning and pea-soup-vomiting reflex a la The Exorcist.

I’m only glad I wasn’t drinking something when I read this. We need to popularize this on the Dope. I would only suggest a continuum.

GSS/Guanoneurological stress syndrome: heading down the road, but still generally in touch with reality.

GSD/Guanoneurological Stress Disorder: Really losing touch but occasionally lucid.

GSP Guanoneurological Stress Psychosis: Gone. Just gone.

If we swap out “stress” for “anxiety,” we’d have GAS, GAD, and GAP.

[Gala_Matrix_Fire]

So if you’re fixated on food, the solution is just to stop eating? How is that possible if you’re fixated on food?
I ask because I’m also fixated on food. My kitchen would make a great art studio if only I didn’t have to eat.

[spinky]

@CaerieD

Since it’s homemade, I wasn’t sure what the calorie content in them is.

I’m no expert on this, but my wife is, and you gotta know what the calorie content in things you make is, and you gotta include everything, not skip stuff like the oil or the cooking spray. I used to think she was absolutely nuts about it, measuring everything out, counting stuff that is less than half a “point”, etc, but I’ve since realized the reason for it: if you’re not really diligent, it’s easy to fool yourself into thinking you’re eating less than you are. In addition, just being aware of the calorie content of all the ingredients encourages her to experiment with reducing amounts of bad stuff and substituting less bad stuff, and she’s come up with some surprisingly good low-cal recipes. The other day she made two-point cupcakes that were amazing.

The other thing that I learned from her when I used her “plan” to lose some extra pounds once was that if you can find a truly good substitute for a high-calorie food, that’s gold. If a sandwich made with just mustard tastes just as good as a sandwich made with mayo to you, then just stop using mayo – what’s the point? Small adjustments will add up. I slowly whittled my sandwiches down from bread, mead, mayo, cheese, lettuce and pickles to low-carb tortilla, meat, mustard, pickles and lettuce, and I started to get more satisfied by a sandwich because I could make it bigger.

[ShelliBean]

@Gala Matrix Fire

So if you’re fixated on food, the solution is just to stop eating? How is that possible if you’re fixated on food?
I ask because I’m also fixated on food. My kitchen would make a great art studio if only I didn’t have to eat.

I don’t know the answer for you but one day I just decided that I could either live to eat or eat to live and started looking at food as a nutrition delivery system, and not a social center or pleasurable experience to savor. Yeah, I like cooking and having something good to eat every once in a while, but really it’s just to put some fuel into my body and nothing more. It’s not something to fixate on.

Of course you can keep in mind that this is coming from someone whose mother said that she would throw out all of my fat clothes and that when my jeans got tight again that would be the signal to put the fucking fork down. But hey, it got me from a size 16 to a 4/6.

[lobotomyboy63]

Yeah, the WW system still has error in it.

For example, I like the sugar free low fat yogurt: 80 calories, 0 fat, 0 fiber. Their little “slide” calculator tells you that’s 2 points. But using the mathematical formula, it’s really 1.6. So you could have 2 for 3 points (160 cal/50=3.2 points). But 3 is more like 5 (240 cal/50= 4.8 points).

I’m not just being picky here, because I think successful dieters find some “go to” foods that they can eat a lot of. If you’ve eaten 10 yogurts in a week, it adds up. WW must assume that it will all balance out…you’ll mark something else as 3 points instead of its true value of 3.4, and all the rounding errors will cancel. If you want to be uber accurate, make a spreadsheet.

Mustard instead of mayo? Yeah, you’ve been around a WW person. Luckily there are a lot more mustards out there now, because French’s yellow is nasty, IMO. If you can find a brand called “Madison Street”—Southwestern variety—mmboy! My Big Lots doesn’t carry it any more but I think it’s flavored with bourbon or something.

When you get sick of mustard, maybe drain some salsa (0 points) to give moisture and flavor to a sandwich. I think horseradish is also “free,” points wise. And break out the spice rack/extracts to add unusual flavors to every day foods. E.g. chicken soup? Add lemon pepper to add variety.

[Johnny_L.A]

@Really Not All That Bright

FWIW, I think I’d rather stop eating entirely than try something called a “meatless sausage patty”.

I’ve had meatless sausage patties. They’re actually… pretty nasty. (Not as bad as the links though.)

[Malacandra]

@ShelliBean

put the fucking fork down

And there you have it - the five-word guide to fat reduction. “The rest is commentary, but you had better learn it.”

I’m a testament to the PTFFD Diet - with the caveat that I believe I can only ever say it’s working out up to now.

[OtakuLoki]

@Hampshire

I’ve heard this before and in my case it’s not true. I have the same thing for breakfast every morning, a skim latte, and it holds me over fine till lunch. People tried to tell me “No! You need to eat more for breakfast! Then you won’t eat as big a lunch!” So I tried it. Nope, still ate the same size lunch every day whether I ate breakfast or not.

That’s not the reasoning I’ve heard for maintaining a regular eating schedule. AIUI when one goes for a long time without food the body will go to a more efficient metabolism, to conserve energy. Or, worse, begin breaking down muscle tissue for energy. Both of these things are bad for long-term weight loss. By having regular, but small, meals and snacks, one will do a lot better for weight loss than to eat even the same number of calories in fewer meals.

Obviously, if your diet is working for you, I don’t see a reason to change it. I’m just suggesting one other reason that having a full breakfast can be a good thing for people who are fighting to control their weight. On preview: Stranger, I see, has already given a better explanation of this than I ever could.

Portion control and meal size was key for me. Before eating dinner I would be hungry and decided I needed two chicken breasts, a mountain of green beans, and a mountain of rice because I was hungry dammit!
But I knocked it down to one chicken breast and small portions of rice and beans.

This is similar to what I have to do. No more serving dishes on the table: Plate everything up at the stove or food prep area, then bring over a single, generous, serving of each part of the meal already on my plate. Eat that - and avoid the temptation to eat more, because it’s there. There are so many times that appetite gets mistaken for hunger.
For the OP, I’m sorry that your mom is thinking she’s such an expert on healthy eating. You know her notions of food and health are seriously skewed. Don’t talk to her about things. And just keep doing what you’re doing, so long as it’s working for you. Take your time. You didn’t gain that weight in one season - so don’t expect to get it off in that time-frame, either.

Best wishes!
(And stay away from Evil Pizza. :D)

[sqweels]

I have a few questions about weight loss:

• Should I bother with supplements of any kind, or are they useless or worse?
• Are diet soda or lite fruit dringks just as good as water?
• What are the rules regarding eating and/or exercising in the hours before bedtime?
• I’ve heard that exercising to the point where you work up a sweat is good. Does this mean that doing it when it’s hot and humid out is even better?

[Jackmannii]

Getting weight loss advice from an anorexic/bulimic is like having Ted Bundy counsel you on relationships.

The attending physician I worked with during my Emergency Medicine rotation actually told a morbidly obese woman (who had come in for an unrelated problem) “You need to eat less.”
He was a charmer.

@Johnny L.A.

I’ve had meatless sausage patties. They’re actually… pretty nasty. (Not as bad as the links though.)

Link?

[Ruken]

@lobotomyboy63

Drink a lot of water.

1. It fills your stomach, helping to trigger the brain that you’re “full.”
2. It substitutes for sugar in sodas, which everybody knows contain a lot of empty calories, and fruit juices (which usually contain a lot as well and present other problems).
3. Your body needs water to detox.

1. This isn’t necessarily true. See my posts in this thread for a cite. Eating watery food caused reduced caloric intake, but drinking extra water did nothing. IOW, soup is a good meal choice.
2. I agree. Drinking sugar isn’t a good plan.That’s why I drink beer
3. “detox” triggers my :dubious: :rolleyes: response. I thought it was generally accepted that the “8 glasses a day” myth was bullshit. I’d be interested in reputable information indicating otherwise.

[OtakuLoki]

IANADoctor nor a Dietitian. Take this with a grain of salt. Just someone who has successfully lost a lot of weight in the past, and needs to get back onto the bandwagon again.

@sqweels

• Should I bother with supplements of any kind, or are they useless or worse?

What kind of supplements? A daily vitamin may be a very good idea. If you’re worried about calcium intake, I’ve heard nothing against them. Beyond that, I’ve heard very little good about supplements to help people lose weight.

• Are diet soda or lite fruit dringks just as good as water?

NO! Take a look at the nutrition information on diet sodas - they have huge amounts of sodium, and generally you want to avoid flooding your body with too much sodium. Among other reasons, from a weight loss perspective, too much sodium in your diet can lead to water retention. I’m not so sure about lite fruit druinks, but I’m inclined to say no to those as well.

If you don’t want to drink just straight water, get a couple of limes or lemons, and cut a small slice into your water glass. It’ll give you some flavor, without adding large amounts of calories, nor sodium.

• What are the rules regarding eating and/or exercising in the hours before bedtime?

Eating too soon before bedtime is generally a bad idea. The body will digest the food, and because the sugars are not being used, the body will store them, first in the liver, then converting the energy to fats. There are some dietitians who decry the idea of having the largest meal of the day as the evening meal, because even that is usually too much food to be digested before your body goes into sleep mode at night.

If you must have a snack before bed, go with veggies or fruit. Failing that those 100 calorie popcorn packs can work well.

Exercising before bed is actually a pretty good idea. (We’ll get some more of this in answer to your next question.) The main problem most people have with exercising before bed is that they wake up after exercising, so it may interfere with your ability to sleep.

• I’ve heard that exercising to the point where you work up a sweat is good. Does this mean that doing it when it’s hot and humid out is even better?

What you really are supposed to be shooting for is about 30-45 minutes of elevated heart rate for your exercise goal. Once you reach that level of activity, and hold it for that period of time, most people’s bodies will go into a very wasteful metabolic mode, where they’re converting fats to usable energy, and burning a lot of calories. I’ve heard that this mode can last for as long as 2-3 hours once you’ve reached that state.

The technical way to measure this is that you want to shoot to bump your heart rate up to the 70-80% of max rate. (Assuming you’re in decent health, already. Check with your doctor, or a trainer, before you judge where your heart rate should be for exercise.) But for many people, the quick and dirty way to make the same measurement is that’s when the body starts to sweat heavily, to control your core temperature.

But, what’s causing you to sweat in this situation is your heart rate, or how fast you’re converting food energy to heat. And so your body has to work to keep you cool. When you’re just in a hot environment, the metabolic changes that make this activity so good for losing weight just isn’t there.

[treis]

@sqweels

I have a few questions about weight loss:

• Should I bother with supplements of any kind, or are they useless or worse?

Ephedra (and probably other) supplements work, but they are risky for your health and not recommended/

@sqweels

• Are diet soda or lite fruit dringks just as good as water?

There’s growing research that artificial sweetners are a problem as well. The thinking is that they trick the brain into thinking it’s getting sugar, and that messes with the metabolism. Best to drink just water.

@sqweels

• What are the rules regarding eating and/or exercising in the hours before bedtime?

If you’re hungry before bedtime, it’s ok to eat a small snack. You just want to avoid eating a lot before bedtime because (a) you don’t get hungry when you sleep, and (b) you aren’t active. Exercise at anytime is better than no exercise, but it keeps me up. I find that I get a boost of energy after working out.

[Swallowed_My_Cellphone]

@CaerieD

The sausage patties are about the same size as the pork sausage patties you’d have in a restaurant, but since they’re made of vegetable protein both of them together are 100 calories.

Keep an eye on the sodium levels in those things. My fiancee and I are vegetarians and we keep “meatless hamburger patties” in the freezer for special BBQ occasions. The things are pretty low as far as calories and taste great, but the fuckers have 750 mg of sodium per patty!

YMMV depending on the brand, but holy shit!

You might be agle to marinate a portobello mushroom for an alternative (although it’ll only have aroung 1/5 of the protein).

[Fear_Itself]

@sqweels

• What are the rules regarding eating and/or exercising in the hours before bedtime?

Eating before bed does not cause any more weight gain than eating the same food at other hours of the day:

PORTLAND, Ore. - Scientists at the Oregon National Primate Research Center at Oregon Health & Science University believe they have helped dispel the myth that late-night eating causes weight gain. The research is published in the current edition of the journal Obesity Research.

"We’ve all been told at one point in our lives that we should avoid eating meals late at night as it will lead to weight gain. However, our research in rhesus monkeys, which are considered an excellent model for studying primate (man and monkey) obesity issues, showed that eating at night is no more likely to promote weight gain than eating during the day. Of course this research does not suggest that snacking at night after eating your normal daily ration of calories is a good idea, " said Judy Cameron, Ph.D., a senior scientist in the Divisions of Reproductive Sciences and Neuroscience at the OHSU Oregon National Primate Research Center.

[elbows]

I am impressed beyond measure that anyone can eat 3 whole wheat pancakes for breakfast, not to mention the faux sausages and V8! No slam intended, seriously. I find I cannot eat but a small amount of anything whole wheat, it’s so filling. If I have a sandwich made with whole wheat bread I leave off the top piece of bread or I cannot finish it, no matter how hungry I am.

Our Dr keeps suggesting substituting whole wheat pasta for regular since the mister went on a lower cholesterol diet. But I can’t do it (I give him whole grains for breakfast instead!), I enjoy my pasta too much and want to eat more than a handful of it for a meal.

I also find V8 quite filling to drink, almost a meal in itself.

My admiration for your consumption of wheat aside, I agree that you should give up seeking or listening to advice from your Mom who clearly has her own eating issues. I doubt, however that she’s in danger of turning you into an anorexic. As you are already on quite a serious healthy foods regime, I think you’re safe. Just ignore her and keep on doing what you’re doing, 'cause you’re doing good!

[lobotomyboy63]

@Ruken

1. This isn’t necessarily true. See my posts in this thread for a cite. Eating watery food caused reduced caloric intake, but drinking extra water did nothing. IOW, soup is a good meal choice.
2. I agree. Drinking sugar isn’t a good plan.That’s why I drink beer
3. “detox” triggers my :dubious: :rolleyes: response. I thought it was generally accepted that the “8 glasses a day” myth was bullshit. I’d be interested in reputable information indicating otherwise.

1. I’m missing a link in your logic, I think. When the stomach is physically full, like a balloon, which I thought did the trick. Stomach reduction types of surgery rely on this, don’t they?

2. Drinking sugar bad…I’ve heard it’s the #1 reason for obesity and that makes sense to me. Beer? I have no idea what you’re talking about. Isn’t there a “guilty as charged” smiley here somewhere?

3. I’ve heard that about the 8 glasses a day thing somewhere as well. But what seems obvious to me is that we don’t drink enough plain ol’ water. If you believe in evolution, Mr. Caveman relied on it because 7-11 Mega Gulps hadn’t been invented yet. Take something like soda: there’s water in it, but if nothing else, the body has to remove the other stuff to get to the water.

Am I a typical American? I don’t know, but I suspect some of us grew up thinking other drinks were more exciting. Coke or water? Coke. Lemonade or water? Lemonade. Etc.

Anecdotally I’ll say I sleep better if I drink water before bed. I suspect we don’t drink enough plain ol’ water. Whether that needs to be 8 glasses a day or not…not so sure.

[Mark_Ryle]

@Jackmannii

Getting weight loss advice from an anorexic/bulimic is like having Ted Bundy counsel you on relationships.

Not in this case though because of the mother-daughter relationship, shared genetics, etc. Her mother is probably her best counselor all things considered. She’ll realize that down the road. Besides, CaerieD’s within an acceptable weight range for her height. She really doesn’t have much of a problem to begin with. Her mother’s advice is good.