Just what CAN/WILL Obama do on immigration?

[iiandyiiii]

@adaher

Ah, yes, Democrats are just pleased as punch with how the President is handling the border problem, it’s clear from the article. He’s doing a heckuva job. His communication with them has been superlative in fact, they merely forgot what he told them, that’s why they are all confused.

Indecipherable blather. Not sure if it’s a Limbaugh impression or just verbal diarrhea.

[adaher]

Actually, Politico used the word “bungling”. As in, what Congressional Democrats are angry about. He failed to communicate with Congress and they are rightfully irritated. And yes, that kind of thing goes to the issue of competence.

Everything surprises this administration and since they are surprised, they don’t have time for going through the proper processes, like informing Congress.

[iiandyiiii]

@adaher

Actually, Politico used the word “bungling”. As in, what Congressional Democrats are angry about. He failed to communicate with Congress and they are rightfully irritated. And yes, that kind of thing goes to the issue of competence.

So some Democrats disagree with the President on something, and so an article pretends this means they think he’s “bungling” something.

I’m sure this kind of hack-article (and yes, Politico’s standard operating procedure is hack-work) is like catnip for your Obama-hate, but it offers nothing new. ‘Behind the scenes’ there might be some disagreement… oooh!

Everything surprises this administration and since they are surprised, they don’t have time for going through the proper processes, like informing Congress.

Pure Hannity. You just love these sorts of sweeping, bullshit statements.

Yes, you think Obama is the sux. Sorry that the ACA is working out so well and you need to go elsewhere to find your Obama criticism fix.

All you’ve convinced me is that you’re semi-competent at google searches to find articles that seem to show Obama in a poor light. And that you’re completely incapable of looking at anything he does in an objective manner.

[Bookkeeper]

@Iggy

I am a US citizen working as an immigrant in the Cayman Islands. My experience here has convinced me that a reasonable immigration policy is possible but neither major US political party are interested in a solution.

The Cayman system includes:
[ul][li]a generous immigration work visa system. Employers must show that they tried to recruit locally but were not able to find suitably qualified applicants. Once they have done so a work visa, valid for one to a maximum of three years, can often be issued in less than three weeks. [/li][li]tight enforcement of visa overstayers or illegal landings. From detained to deported in less than a week is not uncommon (except for Cubans - their government does not cooperate)[/li][li]work visas can only be renewed to a maximum stay of 8 years for most workers. After that the immigrant worker must leave for at least one year. After the break, he may return on a work visa again. But…[/li][li]with employer sponsorship a key employee may be able to stay up to year 9 at which point he must begin the application for permanent residency or else leave.[/li][/ul]

Of course it is easier to police the border as a small island, but with a fairly open work visa system we really do get very few cases of visa overstays or illegal landings. Enforcement allows for a more open legal pathway.

It’s not perfect, but it is much better than what the US has now.

Canada has a temporary visa program specifically aimed at some of the types of work that illegal workers from Mexico and Central America seem to be doing in the US. For example, a worker can come in and do planting or harvesting for agriculture, earn a reasonable sum of money, and go back to their family for the winter, all while entering, working, and leaving legally, and protected from the kinds of abuses that illegal workers often suffer.

Since a lot of US agriculture and other business sectors appear to rely on illegal workers, why not provide a legal method of doing it all? Less illegal immigration, because there is now a legal route to the desired economic goal and an assurance that the worker can go home to spend time with their family and still come back next year. A legal way for employers to get the workers they need. Easier enforcement, because being barred from **legal **entry in future is a penalty that has teeth, unlike being deported now, because if you come back it’s the same entry method and you can only get deported again next time. Business can get legal temporary workers without having to worry about La Migra taking away their work crew and possible fines.

At present the option for workers entering from Mexico and points south seems to be an extremely limited green card process with no alternatives.

[even_sven]

@adaher

Yet if Democrats see a path to electoral success by appealing directly to race, how can whites not respond to that? Or Asians, for that matter? Asians are mostly Democratic now, but Democrats sure are going out of their way to ignore or work against their interests.

You don’t get it. I see the advancement of minorities as being in my interests. I see immigrant labor as in my interest, and I see providing some protections to those laborer as even more in my interests. Just because the Latinos win doesn’t mean that I lose.

[slash2k]

@Bookkeeper

Since a lot of US agriculture and other business sectors appear to rely on illegal workers, why not provide a legal method of doing it all?

As it happens, there IS a legal method: the H-2A temporary agricultural worker visa program. American farmers/ranchers fill out the paperwork, get approval from Uncle Sam, and then go recruit in Mexico, Honduras, etc., for specific openings.

However, the process is unpopular with farmers. There are lots of complaints about burdensome bureaucracy and lengthy delays for approval, plus the program requires prevailing wages and provision of housing, food, and transportation, which can render it much more expensive than border-jumpers. There are reportedly more than a million illegal aliens working in American agriculture; there are maybe 50,000 H-2A visas issued annually.

(Note that the process must start with American employers; a Mexican national can’t apply for an H-2A and then look for a job, but must have a firm job offer from an approved farmer before visiting the consulate.)

[Iggy]

@slash2k

…
However, the process is unpopular with farmers. There are lots of complaints about burdensome bureaucracy and lengthy delays for approval, plus the program requires prevailing wages and provision of housing, food, and transportation, which can render it much more expensive than border-jumpers. There are reportedly more than a million illegal aliens working in American agriculture; there are maybe 50,000 H-2A visas issued annually.

(Note that the process must start with American employers; a Mexican national can’t apply for an H-2A and then look for a job, but must have a firm job offer from an approved farmer before visiting the consulate.)

Making it work requires making it relatively easy for all involved.

As I mentioned, in Cayman a 3 week or less processing time is typical for a work visa in most fields. Fill out a form, include some passport style photos, a police clearance, and a brief medical exam. Send it all in. It’s not hard. Renewals are normally seamless - the worker can continue working until a decision is made if the renewal has not been granted by the expiry date of the initial visa.

Like the American H-2A visa you must have a firm job offer in hand. The employer doesn’t even start overseas recruiting before satisfying Immigration that local labor is not available. That requires submitting proof of what efforts were taken to recruit locally (classified ads, online ads, etc…). Immigration officials have a good idea what job sectors have a hard time recruiting local talent.

There is little bureaucracy for the employers after the fact, saving that they must have the employee submit a form attesting that they have suitable housing. The employer is responsible for providing wages and health insurance in accordance with local law - but that is no different for a work visa hire or a local hire.

Still, its not perfect. There is an English language test in Cayman that has provoked some controversy as citizens of certain countries (e.g. India, Canada, USA) are exempt even though sizable non-Anglophone communities live in those countries. And the visa is tied to the employer, so the employee cannot readily change employers during the validity of a work visa.

[adaher]

@even_sven

You don’t get it. I see the advancement of minorities as being in my interests. I see immigrant labor as in my interest, and I see providing some protections to those laborer as even more in my interests. Just because the Latinos win doesn’t mean that I lose.

Policy is not a zero sum game. However, there are some issues that create winners and losers and mass immigration of manual labor is one of them. Who wins: the rich. Who loses: poor Americans.

[adaher]

Question for legal analysts here: I understand that the President can effectively legalize 5 million immigrants through prosecutorial discretion. But it’s also rumored he would give them work permits. Where does that power derive from? I thought work eligibility was solely a matter of law, and that only people legally present could obtain a work permit? The President can decline to prosecute or deport, but he can’t actually legalize what is illegal, can he?

[Iggy]

@adaher

Question for legal analysts here: I understand that the President can effectively legalize 5 million immigrants through prosecutorial discretion. But it’s also rumored he would give them work permits. Where does that power derive from? I thought work eligibility was solely a matter of law, and that only people legally present could obtain a work permit? The President can decline to prosecute or deport, but he can’t actually legalize what is illegal, can he?

First, IANAL.

Prosecutorial discretion. is technically referred to as deferred action. It can make a person eligible to *apply *for work authorization. Without an application no work authorization can be granted under deferred action. See 8 C.F.R. § 274a.12(c)(14). The applicant must demonstrate “an economic necessity for employment.” Only Congress has the legal authority to grant work authorization without application to persons under deferred action.

So the Obama administration cannot categorically grant work authorization. The administration can grant a status that permits those persons to apply for work authorization.

There are other means by which a person who is not legally present could obtain a work authorization. A grant of parole-in-place allows such application for work authorization, for example.