This is my exact reading of his argument, which is unsurprising considering it is obvious his low opinion of black people over many, many threads.
While I disagree with your first sentence, the second is entirely true.
You’re an idiot.
And a liar.
And a lying idiot.
I utterly defy you to come up with one post of mine indicating a low opinion of black people…just one…anywhere, let alone in “many, many threads”.
I will tell you right now that you won’t be able to do it, and your silence will serve as its your own condemnation and label you for all to see as a hysterical nincompoop with zero credibility.
So come on, show me up as a racist. This thread is just full of people who would like nothing more than a nice, juicy sample of SA racism to dogpile him with. Here’s your chance to be a hero! Post where I’ve been a racist…or admit you’re full of shit and don’t know what the hell you’re talking about!
Well, there’s being called on it and there’s being called on it. It’s one thing to point out that racism is unfair, hurtful and wrong; it’s another entirely to go completely overboard and become more outraged and punitive over the use of a single word than over child rape and murder.
Again, it was MLK and the marchers of the sixties who were able to convince large numbers of people of the inherent injustice and inhumanity of racism. The screeching and hysteria of the left since then convinces no one of anything and accomplishes little but to allow them a free pass to act like assholes in the name of a worthy cause.
Um… I’ve never actually observed a child being raped or murdered. I assure you that if I did, I’d probably react more strongly than calling the offender an asshole.
You, on the other hand, are an asshole. And quite possibly the single most willfully obtuse human I’ve ever (kinda) encountered.
Sure, I will take the time to do that when you start debating honestly and answer any of the many questions I have asked you on this very page.
Who let Big Tigger out of the 100 Acre Wood?
Except for nearly all the words he’s using to make it, I think SA has a point, though. That was basically MLK’s method – be angry, but be productively and creatively angry, not retaliatory.
He’s also ignoring a few history lessons - that non-violent direct action didn’t prevent violence, it actually invited violence from whites; that those crackers killed him anyway; that it took a series of lawsuits and Supreme Court decisions enforced by stormtroopers to put any reform into effect over the armed resistance of the cracker populace; and most importantly that while all that stuff isn’t over yet, it is 40 god-damned years later - but it’s probably true that MLK would say don’t vandalize the guy’s truck or punch him in the face- “let no man pull you low enough to hate you,” “a method that rejects revenge, aggression and retaliation,” and all that. I think that’s how most of us feel, too. It’s probably not the case that he’d have a problem with a boycott, but who knows. King was just one guy, not some kind of supernatural force, anyway; he lived in a certain time and place and acted accordingly. I don’t think he’d be quite so mild and conciliatory over the exact same issues if he were reborn with a different name today.
I have to say, it sure is convenient that the
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
key to eliminating racism is empathy and understanding
[/QUOTE]
, though. I’m… pretty sure that Haywood No-Nig is the one having trouble with those concepts, not the people who would like him to stop being such an awful person. And I’m pretty sure that racism isn’t going to go away because a bunch of non-racist (mostly) white people start to empathize with a bunch of racist white people. At this point, that kind of racism is a choice. What’s there to understand in 2011? This chucklehead has just never been given a chance to come to terms with the idea that black people are people?
“Yes, yes… I can see what you’re saying. I totally understand why you think the white race is slowly becoming mongrelized. Of course that makes you feel angry!”
No, because there are no quote links. I’ll take your word for it and assume I misunderstood.
It’s 2011. Black people are all over entertainment and the news. There are even some in the White House. It’s not 1967; anyone who still hates black people today doesn’t hate them because they don’t know any, except possibly in Wyoming.
Against my better judgment, I’m jumping into the fray. One thing this message board consistently fails at is having any kind of reasoned discourse over racism.
Starving Artist, I wish you’d just… stop posting. Your claims of what MLK stood for are completely - forgive the term, but a whitewash of what both King and the civil rights movement stood for. I think this quote sums up your stance:
You are correct in saying that the dignity demonstrated by King and many other protesters did lots to garner sympathy for the plight of Blacks in the US. But there was an amalgam of influences that led to societal change. Whites didn’t “do the right thing” just because they felt bad about themselves.
Back to the OP. I think the idea that Truck Boy will lose his job as an outcome of the boycott is a little ridiculous. I suspect if he simply removed the sticker, or didn’t drive the truck to work, the problem is resolved. I think socially repugnant ideas such as that he expresses on his truck should cost something. If he’s racist or stupid enough to think he has a worthwhile stance worth losing his job over, he deserves to.
Racism needs to be treated like both a social evil and body odor. It’s repugnant, cultured people don’t like to be around it, and if you can’t control it, you are treated as a pariah. I don’t necessarily have any great hopes for this individual to correct his ignorance, but sometimes the first aspect of learning is experiencing personal pain… that opens the mind, and he may evolve to understand the harm of his sticker, or at least keep it to himself.
No, they really were not effective at that, and that wasn’t the goal of the civil rights movement, not on a widespread societal level.
What the civil rights movement was effective at doing was making it clear that civil rights legislation needed to be passed on multiple levels, and those laws had to be enforced strictly and strongly, by having mobilized the black community to stand up, en masse, to make the demand that their rights be addressed, recognized and protected.
They weren’t after the hearts and minds of the racist opposition, and never won them. They were after the consciences of the non-racist (or at least less racist) power in Washington D.C. to enact swift and strong law and do what was necessary to see that those laws were followed.
Boycotts, marches, sit-ins, kneel-ins, teach-ins, pray-ins, freedom rides, voter registration drives and mass registration movements, Freedom Schools, Children’s Crusades, the creation of a new political party in Mississippi that defiantly challenged the segregated official delegation at the 1964 Democratic National Convention… these things were not about changing the minds of racists. These things were, if anything, inclined to make racists less sympathetic to the civil rights cause.
Because it wasn’t about them. The civil rights movement was not, and should never ever be characterized as an anti-racism movement. It wasn’t focused on racists, it was focused on ensuring the rights of a marginalized and violently, systemically, amorally oppressed minority.
Honestly, before you start spewing nonsense about recent history read something… hell, even read the Wikipedia article. It might stop the flow of needless bullshit before it starts.
So, what you are saying is worry about the racists (like the guy with the bumper sticker) is irrelevant. So, give him a dirty look and move on then right?
No. why I wouldn’t even say that. We need smart people to level this bullshit racism. we can;t always go nuclear… because they are people too.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t oppose racism. I’m just saying that trying to get someone *fired *over beliefs they’ve expressed in a *personal setting *in a country with the founding principle that people should be allowed to think and say what they want, even if it’s ass-backwards wrong, is unethical and unAmerican.
Engage the guy outside of work. Just leave his job out of it so long as *he *leaves his racism out of his job.
Funny you should mention… 
Ah yes, the rednecks of Kazakhstan.
I dunno, the kind of words someone chooses under pressure, when they’re not thinking and self-censoring, can say a lot about them.
Like **RNATB **pointed out, this isn’t remotely comparable unless you’re Jewish. A minority reclaiming a hateful slur for their own use isn’t the same thing as repeating a prejudiced idiom that doesn’t apply to any group you’re a part of because you personally don’t think it’s offensive anymore.
Also, I don’t think I’ve *ever *heard one of my Jewish friends say “jew [you/me] down.”
I love you. Let’s have 10 babies.
Okay, so anyone who privately* expresses an idea that someone else considers to be “socially repugnant” should have their job on the line? **How do we define what is “socially repugnant”? **What the majority of the country disagrees with? What your particular circle of friends doesn’t like? What one religion says is wrong? What one philosopher has argued to be unethical?
It is not illegal to be a racist. It is fucking *retarded *and should make you a *social *pariah, but it shouldn’t cost you your *job *so long as it doesn’t affect your ability to perform it.
*I.e., expresses on their own time, such as in conversation with friends, on a bumpersticker, on a shirt they’re wearing outside of work, etc.
Honey, honey… You’re expecting **Starving Artist **to read and consider something that disagrees with his own narrow and half-remembered experience of history. The man reacts to any fact that contradicts his cherished long-held opinions by putting his fingers in his ears and loudly humming “Old Folks at Home.”
As I’m sure must be clear by now, I disagree. I believe people have the right to speak freely. But they also have to accept the consequences of what they say. If they outrage the community, the community can choose to ostracize them in turn.
I also don’t feel this was a view expressed in a personal setting. A bumper sticker is very much a public statement.
We’re free from the government doing bad shit to us because of our personal beliefs (ostensibly). It’s not in the least bit un-American for someone to get fired because they’re a dick. Hell, in my state, with at-will employment, you can get fired for pretty much no reason at all, at any time.
Update to the OP: Turns out the guy is the brother-in-law of the sandwich shop owner, and according to the FOAF’s meeting with the owner, he thinks the guy is an asshole but feels a family obligation to keep him employed. So the people at the office have resolved to continue the boycott.
Spirit, letter, yadda yadda.
Besides, while racist beliefs have a high correlation with dickishness, they aren’t precisely equal. Racist beliefs are beliefs, dickishness is behavior. When the guy acts like an asshole (and yes, bumper stickers come awful damn close, but not fully), then call him on his shit. But beliefs that remain beliefs and don’t inform actions should be ignored as much as possible.
Publicly calling the president of the country a nigger is being a dick. That seems like something we can reach consensus on. If not, does that mean it isn’t dickish to actually walk around saying the same thing?
Anyway, I think the important part is that a boycott is not a firing. Even if it’s true that it’s un-American to fire somebody for being a racist - which I think is an argument with merit even though I’m not sure I agree with it - that isn’t exactly what we’re talking about. Customers aren’t obligated to keep patronizing the place if they don’t want to, after all, and finding out that the employees are horrible people seems like not a bad reason to personally stay away from a place.
And I think Shot from Guns skipped over Hippy Hollow’s point. The owner of this place can say to his employee “Hey, you being a terrible racist is hurting my business. Please make up the difference,” and then the guy can apologize and I bet everyone’s happy. If the guy refuses to make any kind of amends, then he gets fired for hurting the business. And the business is hurt because the customers have exercised their American right to choose where they eat their burgers.
I am not surprised in the least to see that you consider thought, logic, and introspection to be a waste of time. Please, by all means, tell us about your eyelash collection.
Why not just scrape off the sticker, or put a pro-Obama one over it? Or one was a saying like “Mean People Suck!” The restaurant manager has no control over what his employee drives to work.
Wouldn’t that be vandalism?