Let’s say the US government finds that the existence of a JLU which is autonomous, outside their sphere of control (space station), and ostensibly more powerful than its military might to be unacceptable.
The UN refuses to issue an ultimatum to the JLU to submit to its jurisdiction (let’s say France keeps vetoing any resolution to that effect).
And so, the US government must deal with the JLU all by itself. Can it effectively disable them?
Peace.
Batman Beyond wins.
In this scenario, can the US government call on the resources of Special Counter-Terrorist Group Delta?
If it comes down to a real, open conflict (rather than the government quietly acting against the League), there are two possible outcomes:
The League (as a whole - no doubt some members would refuse.) surrenders to full US government control without a fight, or the army is wiped (albiet with heavy losses among the less powerful members of the League who don’t defect to the government, and among the US forces.*).
The League has Superman, Supergirl, Wonder Woman, J’Onn J’Onnz, and Green Lantern, (and possibly Captain Marvel, although I don’t know if he’s in the animated 'verse) the five (or six) of whom could take the US Armed forces on their own. While the government apparently (see Fearful Symmetry) has some Kryptonite (from Luthor, perhaps?)**, they couldn’t have it everywhere, so Superman and Supergirl could use hit and run tactics to avoid it. J’Onn’s weakness is easier to exploit, but a) I’m not sure he has it in JLU, and b) I have no idea if the government would know about it. The Government would have Galitea (Who Superman and/or Supergirl could concentrate on neutralising, because the government couldn’t bring Kryptonite to bear in her presence) and is likely to have Captain Atom on their side, but he’s be playing catch up given the number of powerhouses the League could field. I don’t think he could tell the gov J’Onn’s afraid of fire, at least.
Batman would be a good inside-man (and is unlikely to defect), except for the fact that Waller - and presumably others in the government - apparently knows his identity. We can expect Bruce Wayne to lose his fortune soon after the conflict started. Probably Ollie (who totally wouldn’t defect), too, since if they figured Bats out, they’ll have gotten Green Arrow, too.
The government has a stable of superhumans of their own - The Ultimen and Suicide Squad come to mind immediately, and there’s probably others - but on the whole, they’re not very controllable, and they’re nowhere near the power level of the JL’s big guns.
A lot of non-American governments, and likely the UN, would probably form up against the US government - in fear of the weapons the US government would be having to bring to bear against the League, and of the League-as-US-weapon. Whether this would include sending troops to aid the League, or simply censuring the USGov, I couldn’t say. The US government would likely have allies, as well, of course. Again, though, whether they send troops or simply vocal support is an open question. I think if one set of allies sends in troops the others likely will, as well.
So…ultimately, the fight goes to the League, but it won’t be a happy ending. And whoever wins will have lost a lot of the people’s support that they had before.
One possible mitigating circumstance is how the Guardians of Oa interpret this.
If they see it as internal wrangling on Earth, they might leave it to John to sort out, since it’s his beat.
If, however, they saw this as a potential threat to the universe at large, they might send some more GLs (probably couldn’t keep Kyle, Katma Tui, or Kilowog from that group) to aid the League.
OTOH, they might think the government is in the right, and recall John, and send in (a) GL(s) to aid the government. This is a very unlikely possibility, IMO.
** This is assuming the project that created Tea was government-funded. I’m not remembering off the top of my head whether it was mentioned to be in the episode or not, although it seems to be part of Cadmus (Dr Hamilton was involved in both, wasn’t he?), and given Ultimatum and Dark Heart, it seems likely.
*** Based on character nationality, stated attitude towards authority, statements made in Dark Heart, or some combination thereof. (And just because he’s loyal to Hawk in Dove’s case.)
Nice anlysis Tengu.
Batman is taken out in a heartbeat with a bullet to the back of the head. Sorry, couldn’t resist!
If I were Batman, I would start converting my fortunes into gold and hide it.
“Hey, Aquaman. Mind holding on to this in the Marianas trench for a while? Umm, Clark, could I put some things in the Fortress?”
(Remember, the people in this thread have not seen the Canadian aired last two episodes of JLU. Spoilers should be boxed.)
Peace.
Thanks. Please ignore the odd mistakes in it. Mostly the result of sloppy editting.
More likely imprisoned, but unless he had enough warning to evacuate to the Watchtower, he goes down, fast.
If he does, he’s soon relegated to support, from the Watchtower, because even with friends, he’s meat once the gear he has on him (and presumably has stashed on the Watchtower) is gone if he tries to be more active once Wayne Enterprises and Wayne Manor (which means the Batcave and all the gear contained there) are confiscated.
(Oh, and sorry about the spoilers, Moriah. >_< Didn’t think. Used to being about 3 weeks behind you guys.)
Geeze Lochdale, give it a rest. You’re like the anti-Morrison or something.
Anyway, as Tengu stated, the key is who stays loyal. I have trouble seeing a situation in which Superman and Green Lantern (Jon’s an ex-marine, remember) would turn against the US government if they gave them a fair chance to back down (as opposed to attacking first or turning the league into a government hit quad or something). Without those two, it’d be hard going, at least.
They’d be able to take out the satellite no problem. Then it’s all Batman’s game. Yeah, the Wayne fortune is toast, but don’t think Bruce doesn’t have a substantial portion squirrrlled away offshore, and an auxillary Batcave (maybe in Happy Harbor, RI) stocked for just such an eventuality. Guerilla superhuman campaign. That would be a sweet storyline. it’d have to end with the president being controlled by aliens or something, but it’d be great!
Nah, I was anti-Batman from day one. It’s a bridge too far to allow one to suspend disbelief. It’s just a weak character that geeks have blown way out of proportion.
Perhaps the government has created some sort of kryptonite bullet/gun/bomb to use on Superman? Also, who is the say that he wouldn’t turn particularl if his parents were somehow involved.
This point got lost in one of my edits.
I have a hard time seeing the government and League ending up in open conflict happening in a way that Superman and GL would end up on the government’s side. They’re boy scouts, to be sure, and generally loyal to the government. However, they’re not naive uberpatriots like Hawk. If the government initiated open hostilities, it’s most likely to be in a way that would force Clark and John’s loyalties to greater ideals to override their loyalty to the USGov.
Contrarily, if Clark and John stayed loyal to the government, it’s unlikely to be in a way that there’d be be much (or any) open conflict - foreign members would likely return to their homes, and Batman would potentially start a guerrilla war against the government (along with a few others), but most of the American/Alien members of the League would either capitulate along with them (J’Onn would probably be in this group, Hawkgirl almost definitely), or retire/return to crime-fighting in their hometowns (depending if the government would allow them to do the latter) - I see Green Arrow and Black Canary in this group - but it would be mostly peaceful, and couldn’t be called ‘JL vs US’, IMO. More JL vs JL as Superman and the League(Government) is assigned to hunt Batman and the League(Rebel).
An interesting concept, in itself, but a different one from the one being discussed.
If we were talking about the comics, I’d give it to the JLA fairly handily. However, the animated JLU isn’t that powerful. It’s conceivable that the US could bring them down through a combination of very smart planning and advanced technology.
It seems like the JLU’s trump cards would be Zatanna and Dr. Fate. If they really let loose against the military, they could do some real damage.
Then there’s Batman’s loyalty.
It’s not to the government. But if he sees fighting them as hopeless, he may abondon the league and continue in Gotham alone.
And if Batman doesn’t see a way, then there probably isn’t one.
How does this question relate to DKR? In DKR all of the superheros were out of business except Superman, who was a puppet of the American government. Batman, getting back into the hero gig, drew lots of unwanted attention. What happened to GL and WW and everyone else? We see GA, but he is obviously limited in his effectiveness, but that didn’t stop him from making the one shot he had to.
Also, when are new episodes of JLU going to air? They are getting into repeats for the third time.
CN is supposed to FINALLY show Ultimatum on Dec 4, according to what I saw while looking for an image of the assembled JL from the first episode. (Unfortunately, the best I could find was the small pan at World’s Finest, which is cool, but not big enough to make anyone past the first couple rows out.)
Then I can talk about it without having to remember you haven’t seen it down there yet.