'Kaffir Lime Leaves' - non-PC?

Hopefully I’ve phrased that in a GQ way as possible - if this becomes a GD, then no objections.

But what the hell caused lime-flavoured leaves from SE Asia to be called that?

That’s an interesting question. This first link has the most info I could find…

and here’s another one (have to scroll down…)
http://www.geocities.com/mdmorrissey/mainnonie.htm

For those of us on the other side of the pond who are confused why you asked your question this way (like I was until I looked it up), the OED defines “kaffir” thus:

Wow. Learn something new every day. I never knew “kaffir” meant anything other than a specific type of lime leaf often used in Thai cooking.

“Kafir” is Arabic, and means “infidel” or “unbeliever.” While I am not sure of exactly how it reached South Africa, I would guess it was used by Arabic traders along the East coast of Africa to refer to black Africans, where it was eventually picked up by Europeans.

“Kaffir” was originally used as a general adjective for things from Africa, and in fact it appears in a number of common and scientific names of animals (Kaffir Rail; the Cape Buffalo Syncercus caffer). However, in South Africa it eventually became a derogatory name for blacks.

I always use the thai “Makrut” for them.

Not that I would question the OED, but I thought South African term for this last part of the definition is “kaffirboetie”. Is “kaffir” truly used to refer to white people? :confused:

I used to work with guy who was raised in South Africa. He told me a story of when he was growing up, and the black servant of the house didn’t make him hot chocolate for him for some reason. When his dad came home, he told him “I wanted hot chocolate and the bloody kaffir wouldn’t make it for me!”

His father was enraged at his language. “We will not call the niggers “kaffirs” in this house!” he roared.

So, at least when this guy was growing up (likely in the 40s or 50s) “kaffir” was indeed a slur used for blacks, and considered far worse than “nigger”.

Recall also that in Lethal Weapon 2, when the South African bad guys break into Sgt. Murtaugh’s (Danny Glover’s) home to intimidate him, Vorstedt tells Murtaugh to “be a smart kaffir” and back off the police investigation.

I’m not saying that Hollywood movies tend to be fonts of factual information, :wink: but this movie did have a South African dialogue coach who presumably knew what she was doing. So the term doesn’t seem to have lost any of its negative connotations in more recent years.

This is of no help, but another plant that had been called “Kaffir…” is Clivia miniata - formerly called the Kaffir Lily, but is now just called “Clivia”.

A few plants have names derived from “offensive” trees, such as the Gray pine, which used to be called “Digger pine”. It’s now called Gray pine because “Digger” is an inaccurate and oft offensive term for California Indians (People often thought the California Indians dug their food out of the ground, because the bulbs of Calochortus were prized foods (able to be baked like potatoes), and did have to be dug out of the ground, but that wasn’t how the Indians harvested ALL of their food)

[QUOTE=Doobieous]

A few plants have names derived from “offensive” trees

[QUOTE]

WELL. This should be “offensive terms” not trees :). Offensive trees… that’s another thread.

That is indeed the case - and still is. It is a source of slight amusement when Americans get offended/upset by the word “nigger”, as to us this is a rather quaint/archaic word which carries none of the sting of “kaffir”.

Jervoise is also right about the word “kaffirboetie” (lit kaffir-brother) being applied to white people considered too friendly with the natives.

There are others plant with Kaffir in their name - the Kaffirboom Coral Tree for one, and Kaffir lily and Kaffir-plum (from this UCLA article about South African plants).

Grim

That’s interesting, because in Australia “diggers” is a (positive) nickname used for veteran soldiers. I am not sure if it refers to a specific type (eg footsoldiers, or ones who dug trenches) or all troops (army/navy/airforce) but many ex-services - “RSL” = retired service league - clubs are called “Diggers”.

Eg one near where I used to live was called Harbord Diggers.

You seem to assume here that “nigger” is considered offensive in South-Africa. Do you some reason to believe so or is it a mere assumption? Not that I don’t believe you. I just don’t know, have no particular reason to believe so, and am curious.
A related question : I heard that the word “nigger” exists in Dutch too, and isn’t considered offensive, either. True or false?

Sounds like it isn’t clairobscur, according to grimpixie.