How exactly do the mega-rich benefit from the destruction of the middle class? So they can lower wages? Yes, each individual business wants to pay employees as little as possible. But they also want to sell their products for as much as possible. The vast majority of goods are services aren’t consumed by the mega-rich but by the average citizen. If the average citizen were an impoverished serf then who would the corporations sell their goods and services to?
You know, there’s a much simpler explanation for why the rich don’t like to pay taxes. It’s not that high taxes help the middle class, who the mega-rich hate and fear. Rather, the lower their taxes are, the more money the rich get to keep. Bill Gates doesn’t give a rat’s ass WHY you want his money, he just wants to keep it. Why exactly is this so hard to understand? Warran Buffet doesn’t like giving the government his money, not because he hates you, but because he likes money.
Reminds me of the old Captain Planet cartoon. In that cartoon polluters ENJOYED polluting the environment…they created pollution for fun. And the solution therefore was to just smash their pollution-creation devices, problem solved. Except in the real world no one creates pollution just because they like pollution, they create pollution because it’s cheaper than cleaning up after themselves.
When you completely misunderstand the problem then your proposed solutions will be completely inappropriate. Rich people want to be rich, they don’t particularly care whether you are rich or poor. Bank robbers don’t rob banks because they hate banks, they rob banks because that’s where the money is. See the difference?
He’s a creature of politics as much as ideology. The request came after a week’s worth of severe criticism, even from his base, and the wound had to be cauterized.
Not really. He authorized $1.5B immediately, and the fact that it took a week to request the rest is just the nature of government, having little to do with criticism he was getting. More funds would have been authorized even if no one issued a peep of criticism. The full amount of funds never get authorized the day of the disaster, and I suspect we’ll be seeing more fund authorized as the disaste unfolds.
Even assuming for a moment that your interperatation is correct, how does this support the OPs assertion we are headed towards a kleptocracy…seems exactly the opposite from me. Or maybe my definition of ‘kleptocracy’, like my definion of ‘mogul’ and ‘peon’ are radically different from yours…and the OP’s.
No, not Halliburton, so I guess that’s not my answer. Unless, of course, you have a cite that Hal is getting $51B. If you do, I’m all ears (or eyes, in this case :)).
Elvis, your cite doesn’t support any such goddam thing. Your cite says plainly that Haliburton got the bid in 2004.
Haliburton may or may not get reconsctruction contracts. Wouldn’t be surprising that a large construction company might get construction contracts. But it hasn’t “started”. It hasn’t got a dime.
Do you favor excluding Haliburton from bidding on government contracts? On what grounds? Should the fact that Cheney used to work for them make them ineligible to bid?
Do you actually think anyone is going to take you seriously (well, anyone not already converted so to speak) with an answer like that??
Even assuming for a moment that Hal gets ALL the money ( :dubious: !!), they get the money for providing a SERVICE…and SERVICE that, at least in theory, helps out those in the area. They don’t just get the money and then do nothing. Again, how does even your ridiculous assertion fit in with the whole kleptocracy/Banana Republic schtick? Or are you just here to make drive bys and not really debating this facinating ‘OP’?
Oh, I wouldn’t have doubted that Hal would get some of the $$. It might be a sign of courrution, and it might not. Unfortunately, I don’t believe there is a legal way to ban Hal from the bidding process for such gov’t projects. If there were, my advice to Bush would be to exercise that option.
Of course not. But there’s no more evidence of actual bidding in that story than there was for their Iraq contracts. I do favor open, honest bidding, don’t you? But precedent doesn’t suggest that we can assume that will ever happen with this crowd in power, does it?
Well, if you think Haliburton gets juicy government contracts over better qualified companies due to their friends in the Administration that’s an argument we can have. But simply assuming that the article was lying when they said “KBR was assigned the work under a “construction capabilities” contract awarded in 2004 after a competitive bidding process” seems kind of thin. If you think they were awarded the contract under some other process, feel free to correct the article and provide the evidence. But simply asserting that because Haliburton has gotten sweetheart deals in the past that this particular deal must have been a sweetheart deal–regardless of what the Houston Chronicle says–isn’t exactly logical. And asserting that because Haliburton has gotten sweetheart deals in the past they will ALWAYS get sweetheart deals in the future doesn’t make sense either.
Of course corruption exists where the politically connected get taxpayer money that they don’t deserve. Will Haliburton get more pork than it deserves? It seems highly likely. Now, what does that have to do with the OP…that the rich and powerful deliberately neglected flood control projects because they WANTED New Orleans to flood, because they want to impoverish the middle class and turn them into serfs?
Haliburton doesn’t want to impoverish the middle class, they want to get fat lucrative contracts paid for by taxes squeezed out of middle class taxpayers. Companies that line up for a helping of government pork don’t want to destroy the people that provide the pork, they just want the pork. Haliburton doesn’t want to cut taxes and starve the government, they want higher taxes and more government spending. Bank robbers don’t want to destroy banks, they want the money in the banks. See the difference?
:dubious: Really? Why is this in GD then if its satire? Why was it moved BACK to GD from one of the forums where these kinds of threads should be? The Meaningless Pointless formum for instance?
I guess I was one that didn’t get that this is all satire…not that I was taking it too seriously mind you, but I figured you and the OP were serious.
An interesting proposition. Are you going to offer any facts in support of that proposition, or are we supposed to accept it at face value? I can’t see the point of debating this until you actually offer something to debate-- something, that is, other than an opinion.
How about for the already long-reported graft and overcharges in KBR’s no-bid Iraq contracts?
I’m not sure that that should preclude every Halliburton division from bidding, but it goes a long way toward answering why some of us would not mind them being excluded.
If there is evidence then prosecute or fine them…thats pretty standard when contractors for the government do either of those things. Denying them the ability to bid on other contracts though would be pretty extraordinary I’d think…certainly for the two points you bring up. I’ve never heard of a contractor who has overcharged being denied even the ability to bid…though of course I’ve heard of several who have been blacklisted for various infractions.
Kind of putting the horse before the cart though, as afaik they haven’t been formally charged (innocent until proven guilty and all). Stuff like graft and overcharges happen all the time, and there are proceedures and policies in place to deal with them…I know, my company does a lot of government contracting and we partner with big companies occationally. I’m no fan of Hal myself either, as they manipulated the system so that one of my companies IT contracts in Iraq was cancelled and we lost that business. But I could say the same thing for Honeywell, IBM and a few other big fish too, as they all play the same games.