Keep that white man out of my son's classroom!

The BBQ Pit
81

So does anyone know how the “ousted” Black teacher feels about this? I mean, is s/he like, "Whatever . . . " or is s/he also involved in the protest to get the class back?

I think, quite honestly, that it’s all a pretty big crap shoot, and depends largely upon the politics of the teacher in question (or, rather, the propensity of the teacher to bring his/her opinions into the classroom as fact), no matter what race he/she is.

I myself taught (well, almost taught . . . long story) a self-designed course at a private high school (adults could take it as well) titled “Strange Fruit: Images of the Black Body in Literature, Music, and Film.” And I am a Black person. But I have to say that my main concern was that my students would feel free to ask questions and express their thoughts without disrespect towards or from other students (disagreement, sure, but disrespect, no). In this age of Uber Political Correctness, I feared that the White kids in the class would pretty much keep mum about a lot of things, for fear of offending the Black (or other non-White) students.

The truth, I told them, is that all of us, including myself, harbor some warped ideas about race, and the point is to learn from and grow out of our ignorance. (Then, as an example of my own jacked up way of thinking, I shared an amusing anecdote about penis size which, once I realized what I’d said, made me want to crawl under my desk; what can I say, I get verbal diarrhea when I’m nervous.)

Anyway, the point is that I think the teacher who can best accomplish openness, honesty, and the ability for the kids to challenge their own (probably unintentional) prejudices is the best person for the job.

Problem is, that’s hard to determine until the teacher actually does the teaching.

82

I would NOT keep non-Black student from taking the class.

83

How 'bout if he’s in drag?

84

Overreact much? In my particular post, I was considering possible factors that could present bias or value for a given candidate. Sometimes people do indeed generalize from group trends, especially if all else is equal. I think it more likely that a black person has experienced some sort of discrimination or prejudice than a white person, and that firsthand experience of it may break a tie between two applicants. This is because discrimination is an important part of black history in America, and truly understanding what it is like to live with on an everyday basis may be valuable for students. Of course, it is always possible that the black dude has not faced significant discrimination at all (I never said they all do, but every black person I’ve known somewhat well has said they had), in which case then it should not be a tie-breaker.

And notice how I was considering the other side, that perhaps being too invested in the material (i.e. the Israeli example) may lead to bias. I am not saying that ALL invested people (i.e. all Israelis teaching about Israeli-Palestine conflict) would be biased, but it seems common sense to say that a member of a group involved would more likely be biased than someone on the outside. I sure as heck know that in a Yankees - Red Sox game, I would not trust a fan of either side to tell me whether a close pitch was a ball or strike (since odds are, the fan would argue for the ruling that helps their team). I would be more likely to trust a passing Astros fan…

Note that I never said this was absolute, but it is MORE LIKELY for the invested party to be biased. You’d obviously try to get information about the individual about whether they’d be biased, but if all else is equal and you don’t know, you’d play the percentages.

So, Rhum Runner, why don’t you stop with your bullshit generalization about how i said all black people think and act this way and all white people think and act that way… I don’t know anyone who would even consider making such a statement, and your interpretation to that effect makes it seem like you’re just looking for a way to be outraged. Petty.

85

I have a vested interest in this topic, and will come out of lurk mode to respond.

You see, I am a student at Oberlin High School, and I’d like to make some things clearer.

The Oberlin Black Alliance for Progress (OBAP), the group up in arms about the situation, is a very small group of community activists. Ms. Hogan is a community leader in Oberlin, and was the principal force behind getting the class taught at OHS. (it’s a new course) She’s been quoted as saying that the OBAP would rather not have the class at all than have it taught by the white teacher.

UPDATE: The class has now been given back to the black teacher, under intense pressure from the OBAP.

The black teacher in question (with whom I’ve had class (this is so cool! a SDMB topic i know something about!)) is in fact not certified to teach the course. The black teacher is a relatively new teacher, while the white teacher has 25+ years of teaching, and is the head of the social studies dept. The white teacher is certified to teach it; last year’s AFAM History teacher retired. The school is applying to the Ohio BOE for a temporary certification to obtain certification for the black teacher, basically jumping through hoops to satisfy the 5-member OBAP. Knowing both of the teachers, while the black teacher is more in tune with the black students, the white teacher is more qualified.

I can’t tell you how ridiculous this is to me. Last year, I scheduled the course in question; I doubt I’ll take it now. (I’m white, FYI) I won’t support this racial nonsense and its continuing division of my school.

If any of you have more questions about the article, or want updates, just ask.

86

And yes, Ms. Hogan is a tool.

She announced at her (all-black) church that the class would be taught by a white person, and the black community took it as a call to arms. It’s really getting wild now.

87

:rolleyes:

http://my.tbaytel.net/culpeper/RecognitionAndRejectionOfVictimizationInTheNovelsOfMargaretAtwood.html

88

I’m sorry. I misread it. Misread it several times, as a matter of fact.

Damn glasses!!!
:smack: :smack: :smack:

89

Based on Pragmatist’s post, I’m psychically heaping shame on the heads of the administration of Oberlin High School. That’s ridiculous.

90

Thanks for the info Pragmatist.

91

Thius statement from the news article:

is pretty much in direct conflict with these statements from Pragmatist:

So, could we get a timeline of what really happened?

Who retired? What is AFAM? Is AFAM different than the course under dispute? Was the retiring AFAM teacher black? (The last question has no bearing on what should happen with courses in the coming year, but may provide some context to the situation.)
I am not as concerned with the certification issue*, given that certification does not translate to good teaching, but if the proposed teacher has a B.A. in history of the Religious Wars of the Lowlands, then this makes the whole issue look like a make work program and I’d say the white teacher with experience should be teaching the class. If the black teacher has only half his teaching credits after changing careers from one of being the librarian or curator of a significant library or museum of social history in the U.S., then I’d be more likely to overlook the apparent lack of experience in teaching.

  • True story from the trenches of Ohio teacher certification. A guy had been a reporter and editor on a series of newspapers from local weeklies to major dailies in million-plus markets. He had begun teaching a couple of college courses on journalism as a way to get involved with the community and had enjoyed it so much that he decided to offer his services to the local high school. The high school reported back that the state school board would not allow him to be hired unless he had the appropriate credits. He called the state to find out what was going on and was told that he simply did not have the college credits to teach such a course. He asked, “You mean that if I pick up some college courses on the subject, you’ll certify me?”
    “Yes” the state replied.
    “How about these courses [NAME ONE] and [NAME TWO] at [NAME] College?”
    “Oh, yes, those would certainly be qualified courses!”
    “I teach them.”
92

According to this update the issue is not one of who teaches the balck history courrse, but of who teaches government–since the black history course has been merged with the government course.

If true, this changes the complexion of the whole situation in odd ways. (How does one merge Government and Black History into a single course at the high school level?)

93

The school district is in financial ruin. I am willing to believe that the reason for combining Government and Black History is innocent, a cost-cutting measure. However, what concerns me is the availability of a regular government course, for those of us who want to learn government without the African-American slant.

94

And, of course, if studies could be provided (wow, actual evidence, one step past your ideas) that whites had greater math skills than blacks, it’d be perfectly fine for black teachers to be turned out for white ones.

Because, you see, all blacks are exactly alike. And all whites are exactly alike.

What? That’d be racist?

Huh. Imaine that.

-Joe

95

Funny, I didn’t learn about any of what I posted until it was taught by a black professor, in college.

Which ones? And in what ways were they at the level of the European counterparts?

Are you privvy to a parallel universe in which you can see what happened to an Africa where there was no slave trade with Europe and the Americas? Or is this just a WAG?

96

I have never asserted that a black teacher is inherently better than a white one and I don’t know why the color of your teacher makes a difference. I also do not know whether he failed to teach the course properly, whether the course was addressing a different location or period than we are discussing, here, or whether you did not quite grasp all the material. My corrections to your post are accurate.

Among the kingdoms that were the equal or better of many contemporaneous European kingdoms were Ghana (7th to 13th centuries), Mali (13th to 16th centuries), Songhay (14th to 17th centuries), and to lesser extents, Kanen & Bornu and Hausaland. Ghana was equal to any European Kingdom save the Byzantine Empire and Muslim Iberia and Mali was the superior of most of the smaller kingdoms of Europe. They were equal in power, bureucratic administration, trade organization, and education, among other traits. When the Portuguese encountered Mali as they probed Africa for trade and routes to India, they arranged “student exchanges” among the sons of the nobility, sending the Portuguese sons to Mali for their university education. And, of course, Ethiopia is an African kingdom.

I do not need to see an alternative universe to see what actually happened. Agrarian societies in, for example, Indonesia and Japan were not laid waste by the Europeans. I already noted that I would not expect Africa to have reached the same level of development as Europe, based on resources, however, you seem to be claiming that the removal of 12 to 20 million persons and the imposition of borders that conflicted with the pre-existing ethnic associations would have had no effect, at all.

Nomadic peoples are not the only societies that existed in Africa prior to the slave trade. Agrarian societies are quite capable of forming stable governments. The European interventions specifically interrupted the development of the latter.

97

Yikes!

I learned this in a World History Class in 9th grade(incidentally taught by a white teacher).

My mother is a history professor, so I’m familiar with her department. At times, there’s been a black person teaching European history and a white person teaching Black history. I think the issue is the comfort level of the teacher.

98

What if the white teacher wears a James Brown mask ?