Considering that even those who were responsible for the war admit they were wrong (Robert McNamara?), and the fact that BOTH SIDES were fucking assholes, does it really make a goddamn difference?
It’s interesting to note that Jane Fonda’s film career continued to prosper throughout the rest of the 70’s and 80’s despite the resentment in conservative circles about her trip to North Vietnam. The fact she was absent from the screen for 15 years had more to do with the lack of roles in Hollywood for women over 50 than some sort of belated punishment for her political activism 20 years before. Yet, here people are–30 years after the Vietnam War ended and 16 years after the Cold War (the nexus of Vietnam) ended–going after Fonda with more fury than they did during the 70’s when their anger would’ve seemed more timely and relevant. If I may put on my cap of Reynolds Wrap for a moment, one shouldn’t fail to consider the role of the right-wing propaganda machine in all of this continuing acrimony.
During last year’s presidential campaign, I naively doubted that John Kerry’s public opposition to American involvement in Vietnam would prove to be a negative factor 30 years later. It was history. We’ve moved on. Vietnam is now a country of sweat-shops where our Nikes are made. (In fact, since Vietnam is pretty much “Communist in name only,” I would not be surprised there are some old hardline Vietnamese Marxists who are wondering who really won the war.) Likewise, I also thought that nobody would believe the smear campaign about Kerry fraudulently obtaining his medals by the so-called “Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.” Unfortunately, I was dead wrong on both counts. There was still enough lingering anger out there about Vietnam to hurt Kerry and the Republicans knew it–and tapped it to their benefit. That’s why Jane Fonda is still a favorite right-wing target today. Not only because she’s a visible reminder of how we were “stabbed in the back” by the “leftist anti-war freaks” at home but also because, as you mentioned, she’s part of the “cult of celebrity.” She’s useful to the right-wing radio ranters as an embodiment of Hollywood and its morally bankrupt and pernicious liberal influence on our nation that’s corrupting our youth so they think dirty thoughts and vote Democratic. :eek: The American right-wing political wizards know the way to make sure Republicans continue to rake in the campaign contributions and votes is to rile up their flock and keep 'em angry. And, apparently, the Vietnam War and Jane Fonda have not exhausted their effectiveness to do either.
Cold comfort. Took way, way too long.
One could interpret that to mean you believe that the Thieu govt. was the focus of wide popular support in its resistance to invasion and oppression from the North. I cannot even begin to address such a delusional opinion, save but to hope that I misunderstand you.
Hmmm. toughy. Never much cared for Joan Baez, but Al Capp hated her guts even more than he hated me, so that counts for something. Hayden…too doctrinaire, reminds one of the guys in Life of Brian, undermining their own effectiveness bickering over insignificant details of policy. So, well, I guess, Joanie. A working class hero is something to be, but you don’t get there trying to be more proletariat than thou.
But you weren’t really seeking information, were you?
My turn: both Rush L. and Sean Hannity are totally full of shit. Which one has the browner eyes?
I know this is way OT, but why did the guy who drew “Li’l Abner” hate you?
Charter member of S.W.I.N.E. (Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything)
Capp was cool at one time, 'Lil Abner had a populist tinge (“Whats good for General Bullmoose is good for America!”) but he turned to the Dark Side. Not so bad as Chester Gould, Dick Tracy, who went completely batshit pizza.
And there was always the sweet sardonicism of Walt Kelly, bless him and keep him all the days, etc.
Did anybody else notice that today’s USA Today used exactly the same title as this thread? (The print version only; the online version uses a more “perfethinal” title.)
You are a shit. 'Nuff said.
In the days when Capp was drawing “Joanie Phoanie” I thought he had a point. But then again, I was in junior high at the time.
Isaac Asimov discourses on Capp’s ideological about-face at some length in a couple volumes of his autobiography. In the essay entitled “Al Capp” he makes some observations about “liberals” that I wish most “conservatives” weren’t too ignorant to read.
Well, why wouldn’t the extreme right’s spin doctors not use her? I mean, she was a pinko commie sympathizer who committed treason.
The pic doesn’t lie. The testimony of those POW’s who were there isn’t a lie. Their continued pain and suffering isn’t fake. My elementary school principal, Mr. John Fer (Col, USAF Ret) was a ‘guest’ of the North Vietnamese for over five years. I wish you could see his hands. Yet Jane Fonda, who flaunted her crimes and called those who answered their country’s call to arms liars, sits pretty and makes movies. Sorry but she should have been arrested, tried, and if found guilty (again, the pic doesn’t lie) hung as prescribed by the Consitution.
Two things from me:
-
I hate Jane Fonda.
-
I personally know Larry Carrigan, a Vietnam POW who is widely attributed to a Jane Fonda story. Col Carrigan was an F-4 pilot when he was shot down over North Vietnam.
Col Carrigan has many stories (most of them are life-altering) about his time in Vietnam. None of them involve Jane Fonda. If you listen to him speak you will be moved, but you will not be moved to hate Jane Fonda. Col Carrigan is a true gentleman, and although Jane Fonda’s visit caused him and his cellmates to receive more torture you will hear him say that this made them stronger. He talks about the support he received from his fellow POWs.
Col Carrigan talks about hope and strength. How he knew that his wife would be there for him when he finally came home 7 years after being shot down. How he wanted to go back flying jets for the great country that brought him home.
If Larry Carrigan was in a movie today I’d be the first in line to see it. If the theater owner in San Francisco/NYC/Austin/wherever decided to “ban” a Carrigan movie…fine. I’ll go see it somewhere else. If I want to spend those dollars bad enough I’ll find a way to do it…and so will everyone else.
So some guy in KY doesn’t want to show a Jane Fonda film…who really cares? If you live in KY and really want to see this movie I’m sure you can…just not at his theater.
Or am I missing something?
Oh, before I forget:
You, sir, are an ass.
A-S-S.
fushj00mang
Just who do you consider to be “those who answered their country’s call to arms” ?
Are you referring to that brave patriotic warrior Jack Kemp who courageously played quarterback for the Buffalo Bills during the Vietnam War yet still had a medical deferment which excluded him from military service?
How about “Dubya” who so bravely fought the enemy in that hotbed of Vietcong activity - Texas ?
You mentioned your “elementary school principal, Mr. John Fer (Col, USAF Ret) was a ‘guest’ of the North Vietnamese for over five years. I wish you could see his hands”. Oh I have no doubt that his treatment as a Vietnam POW was brutal and inhumane. I was wondering what he thinks of Jack Kemp, Dubya and many others who “chose” (or had the influence) to remain stateside while he, John McCain and others were being brutalized in some Vietcong POW camp. As the saying goes, for each of those that didn’t go, there was someone else who did. Perhaps if Dubya actually was sent to Vietnam, maybe he would have been a POW and Colonel Fer would now be our Commander in Chief.
Anyway, it’s nice to have ALL of the guilt and blame of Vietnam leveled squarely on the shoulders of Jane Fonda. In that way, we don’t have to face up to the fact that the patriotism of the conservative types was something less than stellar.
Getting back to the OP, I’m wondering if that theater owner *Ike Boutwell, who trained pilots during the Vietnam War,
- is even who he says he is. And as I’ve said many times, I wonder if that “Jane Fonda spitter” Michael Smith was ever in the military.
Pilot141
I took so long to type my posting I didn’t even have a chance to see yours get sandwiched in there.
Very nice posting.
Hey, I’ve NEVER had that happen to me…
ever, I swear!