[QUOTE=Squink]
Majority leader John Boehner tells us Iraq is all the fault of the generals on the ground:He’s NOT joking.
[/QUOTE]
IOKIARDI.
(And I forgot who said it, but how come the press has given so much coverage over Kerry’s botched joke while ignoring Bush’s “voting for Democrats means you support the terrorists” line from last week?)
[QUOTE=David Simmons]
I don’t get it. Are you saying that Lott was being ironic in his remarks at the testimonial to Thurmond?
[/QUOTE]
No. I was referring to this flubbed line by Bush.
I was just making a tongue in cheek point about the disingenuousness of pretending that a flubbed line has to be taken literally or that the most sinister implication has to be drawn. I don’t think Trott was thinking about segregation when he said that stuff to Strom Thurmond, I think he was just trying to slap the old guy’s back and didn’t really think about what he was saying.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
My cite is that the notion of Kerry (himself a decorated combat veteran…unlike Bush or Cheney) intentionally insulting the troops is so absurd and unbelievable that no one with any intellectual honesty could possibly really believe it.
[/QUOTE]
I was waiting in line, for a couple of hours, at a military base, watching the news report this. The military personnel, whom I have found to be very honest, very easily believed this. (I am not military.) Most of them guffawed when they first heard the sound clip. Many made comments along the lines of “…well, he called the men he served with murderers …”. Trust me, those troops look at Kerry completely differently than you. (They also knew he had slightly worse grades at Yale than Bush.)
But then, these bullet sponges, upon hearing the whole story, would ask, “Why doesn’t he just say, ‘Look I meant do say X and Y came out I’m sorry. I was trying to make fun of the Bush, not the troops.’ ?” Instead, Kerry went into a tirade about never apologizing.
Anyone with any intellectual honesty would admit that Kerry seriously screwed up and displayed the political acumen of broccoli.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
No. I was referring to this flubbed line by Bush.
I was just making a tongue in cheek point about the disingenuousness of pretending that a flubbed line has to be taken literally or that the most sinister implication has to be drawn. I don’t think Trott was thinking about segregation when he said that stuff to Strom Thurmond, I think he was just trying to slap the old guy’s back and didn’t really think about what he was saying.
[/QUOTE]
Could be. It’s also possible to underestimate just how evil some people can be. I doubt that Lott has ever said anything uncalculated. And no, I don’t have a cite. 
[QUOTE=SlowMindThinking]
I was waiting in line, for a couple of hours, at a military base, watching the news report this. The military personnel, whom I have found to be very honest, very easily believed this. (I am not military.) Most of them guffawed when they first heard the sound clip. Many made comments along the lines of “…well, he called the men he served with murderers …”. Trust me, those troops look at Kerry completely differently than you. (They also knew he had slightly worse grades at Yale than Bush.)
[/quote]
The military is a right wing culture, so they’re already predisposed to believe whatever they want to believe. The fact that they think Kerry “called the men he served with murderers” pretty much discredits them as being thoughtful or informed..or honest.
That’s exactly what he did do. He really owed the troops no apology at all since he didn’t insult them and they KNOW he didn’t insult them any outrage they express is utterly counterfeit.
Bush flubs lines every day. Bush once said he never stops thinking about ways to harm his own country. No one with any intellectual honesty is sincerely any more offended by what Kerry said than what Bush did.
I tend to put Bush’s utterances in a catagory all their own. Figuring out Bushisms is a bit like figuring out snippets of wisdom from Yogi Berra, only Bush lacks any of the charm and accidental eloquence. Or wisdom, for that matter. OK, bad analogy, but hopefully you see what I mean: Bush’s mangling of the English language is in a different league than Kerry’s, or anybody’s really.
Seriously, how the hell did Kerry win a Senate seat to begin with? The man is a political moron. Thirty seconds and a two-second apology, or hell, even fixing the joke right there and this might have made Letterman as a soundbite. Instead, it’s been political hay for the last two days.
The whole thing’s a laugh. I mean it’s not like he insulted Michael J Fox, or anything, is it?
It’s ironic that Lurch is trying to make a joke about somebody else being stupid but instead sticks his foot in his mouth because he can’t put a comprehensible sentence together.
As Lurch meant it, the joke makes no sense. If you don’t get good grades you’ll become President? Not exactly clever, and isn’t it more than a little immature.
I understand that he feels he lost the Presidency because he didn’t react harshly enough to detractors like the Swiftvets during the Presidential elections, and that’s why he reacted so strongly to criticism concerning his botched joke, but Jesus Christ man, think on your feet. You should have just apologized from the start. First there’s the “I will not apologize!” Followed almost immediately by the “I’m very sorry.”
And what’s up with that apology on his web page? “I’m sorry my words were misnterpreted?”
Misinterpeted?
Not quite. Way to accept responsibility. Your words were interpreted fine and accurately. YOU screwed up by saying the wrong words. Jesus Christ on two popsicle sticks.
And he’s offended that anybody would think he was attacking or deprecating our troops? How could we imagine that he would ever do such a thing? I mean can you imagine John Kerry accusing our troops of acting like Genghis Kahn, raping, pillaging, or what have you?
How could you ever even think Lurch would deprecate our troops. He’s never ever done such a thing. Has he?
That being said, I can truly understand why the Democratic posters here are so upset the Republicans are playing this for all it’s worth. I mean for the last six years the Democrats have never taken a cheap shot at Bush or sought to capitalize on a verbal foible. After such restraint, it’s simply unconscionable that the Pubbies would behave that way.
Anyway, I think it was a mistake, and no big deal, but Jesus is John Kerry really on the Democrats side? I’ve been sarcastic above, but I really do feel for you on this one. Here you are, running a great campaign and John Kerry just walks in and farts all over thing.
John Kerry is the effective Republican in the Senate.
I wish, hope, and will vote to put Democrats in control this coming week. Over the last six years I’ve come to beleive that one party controlling all three branches is a very bad thing. Shared control forces the parties to work together, they make better decisions when they’re checking each other, and there’s less acrimony because they need to stay on working terms with each other.
This everybody at throats all the time thing sucks.
There are so many good liberals and Democrats on the boards and this polarization is something that I think shows most of us at our worst.
Unfortunately, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell that the Democrats will gain enough seats to gain a simple majority anywhere. There’s just not that many seats in play.
I make that as the Scylla guarranteed lock of the year (of course my last guarranteed lock was that Iraq had WMDs so don’t quake too hard)
Sorry about the sarcasm, but Goddamn, Kerry is a moron. Nobody has to feel that more than a Democrat.
-Scylla
-Your friendly neighborhood right winger
Would you care to put your money where your mouth is? I’ve got a hundred dollars that says the Dems will take the House. Would you like to take that action?
(I’m not putting a dime on the Senate, though)
[QUOTE=Scylla]
As Lurch meant it, the joke makes no sense. If you don’t get good grades you’ll become President? Not exactly clever, and isn’t it more than a little immature.
[/QUOTE]
Er, i’d say more like “If you don’t get good grades, you’'l become a bad President, like Bush”. Of course, getting to be President, even a bad one, isn’t the worst thing in the world, but I really don’t think it’s as poor a joke as you believe; after all, the punchline was “stuck in Iraq”, not “stuck in the White House”.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
My cite is that the notion of Kerry (himself a decorated combat veteran…unlike Bush or Cheney) intentionally insulting the troops is so absurd and unbelievable that no one with any intellectual honesty could possibly really believe it.
[/QUOTE]
So when he made up stories about war atrocities in Vietnam it was a misstated joke about JFK and Nixon? He endangered the lives of active-duty soldiers to further his political carrier. IMO he committed treason when he did this but he did manage to get honored in a military museum for his efforts. A Vietnamese museum.
But he’s probably right about getting a good education. Otherwise you would have to marry a tax dodging billionaire widow to keep a good stock of silver spoons in the house. Between the spoons and his foot it must have been difficult to make the apology. Probably why he posted it to avoid looking foolish in another press conference (which would have been the intellectually honest thing to do).
What he said about Vitetnam was true. Sorry.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Would you care to put your money where your mouth is? I’ve got a hundred dollars that says the Dems will take the House. Would you like to take that action?
[/quote]
No thanks. Not my style. Read this though:
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The military is a right wing culture, so they’re already predisposed to believe whatever they want to believe. The fact that they think Kerry “called the men he served with murderers” pretty much discredits them as being thoughtful or informed..or honest.
[/QUOTE]
How does insulting people strengthen your case that Kerry wasn’t insulting and owed no apology? You have been intentionally insulting to the military. If had been accidentally, would you not apologize? (“I’m sorry. I meant to say ‘babe magnets’ when I said ‘bullet sponges’.”) Whether someone is informed, tends to depend on the sources you believe, as with the Swift incident.. You are in a culture predisposed to forgive Kerry and denigrate the military. Oddly, they are in an opposing culture. How does that make them unthoughtful, uninformed or dishonest?
Actually, he did insult them. The words that came out of his mouth and were in the sound bite were insulting. Now, these guys were at work, and without access to the internet. They could know nothing of the context. They knew the sound bite. Of course they were insulted. The fact that you can’t see it discredits you as being thoughtful or informed… or honest. It doesn’t take a hell of lot of brains to figure this out.
As I said in my post, once they heard what had happened, they wanted to know why he didn’t just fess up that he screwed up. No one doubted that he had meant something else, once they learned more. It’s not like these guys had never laughed at something Bush said. They were upset that not only could he not fess up to making a stupid mistake - a Bushism - he angrily stated that he wasn’t going to apologize and had no need to apologize.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Would you care to put your money where your mouth is? I’ve got a hundred dollars that says the Dems will take the House. Would you like to take that action?
(I’m not putting a dime on the Senate, though)
[/QUOTE]
I want in on that action, too. The House is gone. The Senate is too close to call, but I think it’s leaning Dem now.
Anyway, this news story about Kerry has (finally) died it’s overdue death. Thankfully we can get back to ther real issues: Gay Marriage and Cambodian genital customs. 
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
What he said about Vitetnam was true. Sorry.
[/QUOTE]
True or not, I don’t care for my point. How does it make someone unthoughtful, uninformed and dishonest to know of Kerry’s claims?
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
What he said about Vitetnam was true. Sorry.
[/QUOTE]
It’s already established that he just made it up. And yes, he is sorry excuse for a human being.
[QUOTE=Magiver]
It’s already established that he just made it up.
[/quote]
Cite?
[QUOTE=Scylla]
No thanks. Not my style. Read this though:
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Slate article]
Let’s assume that the races with one side clearly ahead will come out as predicted. That means the Dems need to win 15 of the 24 tossup races to take control. What’s the chance of this happening?
<snip>
Chances are that Democrats will win very close to half of the 24 tossups. Half is 12, and 12 is not enough.
[/QUOTE]
Problem with that article is that it was published September 19. If we assume that the races with one side clearly ahead NOW will win, that gives us somewhere between 24 and 42 seats picked up by Democrats.
[QUOTE=SlowMindThinking]
How does insulting people strengthen your case that Kerry wasn’t insulting and owed no apology?
[/quote]
The fact that they were pretending to feel insulted does not mean that they actually were insulted or that they were owed an apology.
No I haven’t.
There’s nothing insulting about “bullet sponges.” That’s how they’re being used. That’s not their fault. It’s a slur on their civilian leadership, not on them.
I am? I am from a military family and was in the military myself. What “culture” are you refrerring to that you think I belong to?
The statement that “Johm Kerry called those he served with murderers” is in itself unthoughtful and dishonest.
No he didn’t.
No they weren’t. He never sai the word “troops.”
That’s the media’s fault, not Kerry’s.
He did do that. what are you talking about?
Exactly my point. They know he had nothing to apologize for.
He said it was a botched joke immediately. He only said he wasn’t going to apologize to BUSH and he really had nothing whatever to apologize to the troops for.