Kid can't read "Diary of Anne Frank"--guess why

I am absolutely floored by something my daughter told me at the dinner table tonight. Her eighth-grade class is doing a reading of Anne Frank’s diary, with various kids having speaking roles as characters.

One of her best friends, A., produced a note from her parents saying she was not under any circumstances to participate in the activity. The teacher read the note, was visibly startled, and sent A. to the media center instead, where she will go every day that the rest of the class gets to know a young girl named Anne who remains frozen in time as a teenager, about the same age as these middle-schoolers.:frowning:

My daughter, who sits with A. at lunch, asked her what the deal was, and found that The Diary of Anne Frank was not something she was allowed to read because “the book makes it sound like it really happened.”

To clarify, my daughter asked her if “it” specifically meant the ordeal the Franks went through in the attic, or the Holocaust. You guessed it-- A.'s parents have taught her that the whole thing never happened.

In a way, what is most unsettling about learning this is how normal her parents are. We’ve been in their home and they in ours, and even though I realize it’s not like Holocaust deniers have fangs or a label on their foreheads or anything, I was taken aback that a couple as normal as A.'s parents could hold, in this day and age, such a mind-boggling view.

Even most of the kookiest conspiracy theories or “mysteries” have at least some, however miniscule, chance of holding some water, but the Holocaust’s existence isn’t even on the table as far as any possible debate.

My only experience with Holocaust deniers has been to watch the laughable “documentary” about the English “historian” (don’t recall his name, too lazy to google it) standing on one of the very gas chambers of one of the death camps pointing out the obvious hoax. :rolleyes: That is, until I found one in my neighborhood.

Okay, the questions:

Should this affect our friendship? We hardly hang out at each other’s houses, it’s more like the occasional “step into the foyer” because our girls are doing something together. But I have to tell you, the thought of setting foot in their house right now gives me the creeps. Is this fair?

I feel a natural urge to either show A. some evidence next time she’s here, or have my daughter do it, but that solution probably would incense her parents. Rightly so, I guess. What obligation, if any, am I under to have this child know the truth? Her family’s belief system is their own business, right? If that’s what they want their children to “know” it is their right as parents to impart that “knowledge”, isn’t it? I don’t think I have any right to “un-do” another parents wishes for their child (assuming that it would even be possible; for all I know she would already be able to spit back all the canned rebuttals her parents have filled her head with. )

Thankfully, A. is not an influence on my daughter-- although, again… before I learned this, she struck me as a very normal young teenage girl-- pretty well-mannered and polite, in fact. And of course, she IS a normal teenager. She just happens to be handicapped by having two of the stupidest tools in America as parents.

It’s hearing stories like this that make me wish someone would press CTRL-ALT-DEL on this funny-looking planet.

Talk to the girl’s parents. Broach the subject as vaguely as possible and see what they have to say about it. Then try to get them into a debate about it without making a huge deal out of it. Be as nonchalant as possible, letting them take the lead and challenge them on the points that they raise. By taking a defensive position against their speech, you are ensuring that they won’t see you as attacking their views, and thus not risking your daughter’s friendship. Hopefully they’ll come around. I know that people like this are usually very hardheaded about their beliefs, but being too aggressive with them will only shut them up around you and cause them to keep their daughter away from yours.

I also don’t see how they have any right to prevent their daughter from learning history in a public school. (I thought the parental opt-out thing was only for sex ed.)

I wouldn’t do anything directly, as it wouldn’t be any of my business.

If she feels strongly about her friend, maybe your daughter can do something about it.

I don’t think I would let it affect a casual friendship, either. Although it would certainly make me wonder what other ‘unconventional’ views they hold, someone believing that the Holocaust never happened is really not of that much practical importance.

I’ve never heard of anyone casually holding such a view; would I be right in saying that it is always (or nearly always) agenda-driven?

Who the fuck denies the holocaust? 6 million Jews don’t just disappear! What the hell happened? Were they shunted into sewers, where they became mole people? Are they colonizing space? Are they now digging holes in which people plug fucking straw men?

Myself…I’d just let it go. I wouldn’t bring it up unless THEY bring it up. However…like you I think I’d be a bit creeped out and may want to keep my distance. I’d also have a long talk with my daughter about it if I were you, to be sure she is straight on things. If she’s clear on the reality of the situation, then everything is cool. At a guess it would never come up in a teen age girls (or boys for that matter) conversation. If it does, let your daughter handle it however she feels is appropriate.

No, people like this don’t have fangs or anything. I’ve met a lot of folks with a lot of crazy ideas (never a holocaust denier though). My father in law thinks there is a hole in the ozone…that acts as a chimney to let the ‘bad gasses out’ so its perfectly natural, why are these environmentalists so upset?? I’ve actually met people that thought that the moon landings were fakes and that the world was flat. My inlaws (but thankfully not my wife) feels that evolution is a bunch of bullshit, and in my own family my sister is studying accupuncture and oriental herbalogy (lol). Mostly I just nod and change the subject…and you’d be wise to as well. But you might want to keep an eye on an escape route too, and a handy club…just in case. :slight_smile:

-XT

God, I wish it was just because of that part where Ann talks about her period. That would be stupid and asinine, but this is worse.

Were I in your position, I wouldn’t say anything to A’s parents, though I would be standoffish about improving the relationship; nor would I say anything to A.

What I would do is look up some really knock-down points against holocaust denial, and just keep them ready if the subject ever comes up. The thing I wouldn’t want to happen is for the subject to come up and my only response to their assertions be “but… but… everyone knows it happened!” That just reinforces their view that the popular history is a well-received myth.

I would also talk to my daughter, and make sure she’s straight on it, and then never be the one to make it an issue.

Parents don’t have a right to withhold education from their children. Children have an inherent right to a basic education and education includes history. The holocaust was a fact, not an opinion. The child has a right to be educated and the parents have no right to prevent it. To do so constititutes neglect. Preventing her from a valid education about WWII could severely hamper her acadmeic ability down the road. The school is behaving irresponsibly by going along with these whackadoodle parents.

When the girl takes a history class are her parents going to try prevent her from learning anything about WWII or Hitler? Do so would leaving a giant gaping hole in her academic foundation.

As to being friends with these dumbasses, I couldn’t do it. I also wouldn’t have a problem telling them how full of shit they are (not to mention letting their daughter in on that little factoid). Who cares if a couple of antisemitic bozos don’t like you any more? To hell with them. People like this don’t get told off often enough. They need to be called on their bullshit.

David Irving. Christ, what a tool.

Professor Cannadine’s “review” on that site of one of Irving’s screeds tells you just about everything you need to know about the guy’s “abilities” as a historian. Oh, yeah, Irving was linked to neo-Nazi groups too. Who would have guessed? :rolleyes:

I don’t know how one could reach any other conclusion than yours, mangetout… it virtually has to be agenda-driven. It’s not like even the most cursory objective review of the Holocaust could turn up anything supportive of the theory that it didn’t even HAPPEN.

You have to willfully want to believe crap like that despite the totality of irrefutable contradictory data-- for reasons having nothing to do with the validity of the evidence.

As reprehensible as I find it, the thing is… it IS their business.

Of course, who my daughter hangs with is MY business. I’m fighting off the urge to “ban” A., but banning her doesn’t seem satisfactory for some reason… for one thing, I can’t control their time together at school. For another, at that age, it can have the opposite effect and “drive them closer”-- although I genuinely do think that my kid would honor my wishes if I did take that step. For another, I blame her parents far more than I do A.-- she’s actually a sweet kid, and the absolute picture of politeness. She’s been fed that viewpoint by people she loves, trusts and looks to for guidance… Just like my own daughter does.

Wouldn’t it be hypocritical to shun A. because her parents are giving her their belief system… the same thing I do in my own house?

It is none of your business. You cannot shield your daughter from idiots or the offspring of idiots, and this may be as good a learning experience for her as reading the Diary is. She has to make up her mind if she can still be friends with this girl, and if she wants to broach the topic with her.

To be honest, its good experience for her. You’d be doing her a disservice to forbid her to be friends with A…IMO. There are idiots of all stripes out there…best to learn that early on.

Its ISN’T your business to tell these idiots how to live their life. As long as THEY don’t push that shit at your daughter (and as you have a trusting relationship with her, simply ask her to tell you if they DO…THEN take the steps you think are appropriate).

I guess I’ll never agree with DtC on any subject. lol.

-XT

Why does everybody think it’s none of her business? I don’t understand that. A child’s mind is at stake here. her ability to function in society depends on a decent education. No parent has a right to deprive a child of that. It’s not just an embarrassing religious view. It’s child abuse.

None of his business, I mean…at least I think the OP is a he.

It may also be a good experience for “Idiotdotter” She is being excluded from an activity the rest of her peers are participating in. She is probably already questioning the popularity of her parents beliefs - as someone has certainly looked at her and said “ummm, it did.” And they are making Holocaust knowledge forbidden, nothing like that to make a middle aged girl start smuggling Leon Uris books around.

Don’t ban the girl. You may want to do what my parents and my friends parents did with sex education for some of my more “restricted” friends - leave the materials casually lying around the house (one of my coffee table books is Kressman Taylor’s Addressee Unknown), be in the middle of Schindler’s List at some point when she comes over, give her opportunities to discuss the topic with someone reasonable. You may also want to encourage your daughter (and maybe her other friends) on her “teenage girl has Holocaust obsession” stage so many of us had (maybe not now, but maybe in a year or two) - if your daughter reads Mila 18, Night, Maus, etc., her friend will certainly gain exposure.

I also question the school’s judgment in allowing the child to opt out of class when the curriculum is standard and approved, but that may be the policy of the board of education where you are. The accomodation makes me furious.

Don’t try to argue with the parents. If they won’t even allow their daught to be exposed to Anne Frank, then they are probably too far gone. No logic, photographs or accounts will convince them. Besides, it is not your business what they believe.
If they bring up the subject around you in your own home, that is different. What you believe is none of their business either.

Speaking for myself, I would not be interested in continuing a friendship with anyone so ignorant on this particular subject. I also suspect that such extreme views aren’t isolated from other extreme views, but that is a generalization which may not be true in this case.

It is possible that your daughter may be able to help her friend to separate truth from fiction, but only if she chooses to do that herself. Why not ask her what she thinks about the situation?

Like many people here, I’m sure, I’ve been to the Secret Annex. That was thirty years ago. The bookcase and the map still cover the doorway that leads upstairs. Cooking utensils are still on the stove, growth marks on the wall, and photographs of Anne’s favorite movie stars are still pasted there too. In the attic the window still looks out on the church steeple and the clock tolls the hours away. It is surreal. I missed a chance to meet Mr. Frank by about ten minutes.

Maybe this class needs a trip to Washington D.C. in the spring. The itinerary doesn’t have to list absolutely everything the class would be doing – including seeing the Holocaust Museum. That is as undeniable as it gets in this country.

While I wish that Holocaust denial would disappear overnight and people would universally know the truth, I don’t think believing in the Holocaust is necessary to “function in society.” What jobs require one to acknowledge the Holocaust? Is knowing the history of the Nazi regime necessary to balance a checkbook or care for a toddler? The parent’s foolishness is not child abuse.

UnuMondo

Woo.

Is this a reading class?
What happens in history class?

What if a student was allowed to opt out of science class becasue evolution didn’t really happen?

Gee, I dunno about the parents.
Invite them over for a seder and see what they say.