Kid hunts bear on hiking trail, kills hiker (not the RO you think)

The BBQ Pit
1

Okay, so there is this very tragic story of a 14-year-old who shot a hiker on a very popular hiking trail. From what I’ve read at other sources it’s a common spot for family day trips because some of the trails are short and suitable for children. There is so much hiking that rangers are worrying about erosion and while looking for photos of the traihead sign, I keep seeing pictures of little kids looking like they’re prancing around in the Sound of Music.

Now before this turns into a “hunters vs. hikers” and/or “guns are evil vs. hikers should stay out of the woods if they don’t want to get shot” type of thread (which is the reason I proactively started this in the Pit for discussion), let me just say that what I want to know is this:

I see “No Hunting” signs a lot on trails. How come I rarely see “Warning - Hunting, Lots of It. Wear Blaze Orange and Kevlar. Prepare to duck.” signs?

This is my pit:

  1. State law (Washington) does not currently require juveniles to have an adult with them while hunting. So an 8-year-old can fuck around in the woods with a gun without adult guidance to make sure he assess his target and doesn’t shoot his own eye out.

  2. Guidebooks and trail maps may or may not mention hunting or shared-use lands where hunting takes place. Washington State Parks website does not list hunting as a permitted activity on that trail, BUT the kids were still hunting there perfectly legally.

So okay, say I’m planning a trip. Oh, this looks good! Activities include “backpakcing, hiking/walking, and viewing scenery.” Not a thing about there being hunting permitted in the area. I looked up “seasonal information” and “permits” and… nada! Another site for that trail lists “User Groups: hikers, dogs” and the best season for hiking: “Fall, Summer”…

So the best time to go is during hunting season?

:confused: WTF? We go caving, climbing, kayaking, and we do our very best to stay the hell out of areas where there is hunting. We check the signage. To hell with blaze orange, if we see hunting is permitted, we don’t go there at all!

But now it looks like there are regions that may have swarms of hunters in the woods, and no advance information to warn me that we’re sharing the woods. Seriously?

BTW - in the story about the shooting, the teen did not follow cardinal rules for hunting. He did not verify his target and what was behind it. The dead woman was wearing a bright blue rain poncho whiles standing in an open area (pretty much this one or one idential to it ) on a well-marked an maintained hiking trail. There were visibility issues off and on due to some fog, but he and his brother were “sure it was a bear”. A tragic mistake that has shattered a whole whack of lives.

FWIW - Here is the sign at the trailhead. Hard to tell if the signage includes hunting info (but I’d want it big an obvious), and new reports say it’s “unclear” as to what kind of signage they have along the trail to warn hikers and hunters of each other’s presence.

2

The victim was wearing a BRIGHT BLUE PONCHO and standing in an open area? And the kid still thought she was a bear? That kid needs a serious eye exam and glasses.

3

Holy Jesus.

Some people should not be hunting. Maybe if they actually punished people for doing stupid shit like this - say, trying them as an adult and sentencing them to a hard stretch of time in a real prison - it wouldn’t happen so often.

Jesus H. fucking Christ. If you are going to aim a loaded rifle, either be one hundred percent sure of your target and what is behind it, or use it to blow your own head off.

4

Oh, for fuck’s sake! Can a mod change my title to “kills hiker”. I got distracted and forgot to check my title on preview.

5

You don’t just shoot randomly into the treeline when you’re hunting. Even if you did, the odds of you hitting anything, let alone a human, is pretty damn low.

Personally I’d guess that the kid is either a willful murderer or was trying to get a look down the lady’s cleavage with his scope and accidentally pulled the trigger. I doubt it was an issue of hunting area markation or clothes color.

6

[mod]OK, done.[/mod]

Speaking as a poster, and wife of a hunter, I can’t believe that this was an accidental shooting. If a hunter cannot tell the difference between a human wearing bright blue clothing and a bear, he’s got no business hunting. For that matter, if the shooter hasn’t COMPLETELY identified his target, he has no business hunting.

7

Yeah, but there will always be stupid people in the world and no matter how many people you lock up for being stupid, there will be tons more who still drink while handling weapons, or let juveniles hunt without an experienced adult mentor.

But aside from the stupidity of the hunting accident, I’m also aghast that it was technically okay for the kid to be hunting on a hiking trail, and there doesn’t seem to have been any posted warning for anybody! Both kids took the coursework, they both had legit hunting licences, and so far it looks like they were allowed to be there. I can not believed that that land had mixed use that included hunting without great big warning signs at the trailhead.

The other day, we were hiking along a beautiful trail, on public lands, that bordered private property. Signs for our trails said “No hunting, no motorized vehicles, no bikes. Horses and dogs permitted.”

Then, all along the property line for the private tract, there were signs posted “Warning: Archery Range. No Tresspassing.” So okay, we made extra-damned sure to stay on the public lands and make sure we didn’t stray onto a path that led to the area where someone with a crossbow might mistake our pooch for a deer.

It boggles my mind that there would be mixed-use lands where hikers and hunters would cross paths and there NOT being sginage all over the place.

8

Fucking scary. I love Sauk Mountain; my Mom and I hiked there regularly throughout my high school years, and my family goes there at least once a year. I’ve never encountered a hunter there or heard gunfire, and though I can’t prove it, I absolutely do NOT remember any indication that hunting was allowed in that area.

The State needs to work on the signage, minimum, marking parks and trailheads. Hunters and hikers need to know that they’re sharing space.

As for the killer, I can’t begin to imagine what made him mistake a blue-poncho-wearing human being for a bear. What a horrendous mistake. He’ll pay for it mentally the rest of his life; I’ll be watching this story to see how else he’ll pay.

9

I agree with you. Hunting is allowed in the national forests around here, but it’s not very clearly indicated. I love hiking, but I’m always a little leery of going during hunting season, even though I wear my bright yellow jacket. Most hunters are responsible enough, but it only takes one drunk dude who thinks I look like a deer.

10

Ah, thank you kindly.

True enough. I’m no hunter, but I do know that one of the most important rules of hunting is that you do not shoot until you have absolutely made sure you have identified your target and anything that may be behind it as well.

A woman who lives near my uncle in Ohio got hit in the foot by a bullet while she was on her porch feeding her cat, because a hunter missed his target in the woods across the neighbouring field. The shooter was charged and faced jail time. (Don’t remember the charges, or anything. I was too young at the time.)

The kid had no business hunting. Neither did his 16-year-old brother who was right there with him as he took the shot. But grandpa dropped them both off too. Gramps thought it was a good idea to let two teens out on the hiking trail with rifles? Kids, all the game worthwhile will avoid the high-traffic areas anyway.

11

That was my first reaction too. Could be wrong, of course, but it’s certainly a possibility.

12

You’ve got to be 21 to legally drink a beer, but a 14 year old can go shoot guns in the woods without adult supervision.

Brilliant.

13

I don’t like how little signage there is on trails that are open in areas that have hunting. They need large signs at all parking lots and trail heads. A notice at each trail map sign would be a good idea too. This lets hikers know to dress for visibility or turn around if they like. The kid in this instance screwed up and didn’t belong hunting.

14

Unfortunately, since hunting is now for most people more of a recreational exercise and not part of a normal ritual of bringing home meet for food, many people are not well and regularly acquainted with the safe handling of firearms and hunting practices. People get out there and get “buck fever”, and start shooting at anything that looks remotely target-like. This is a minority of hunters, to be sure, but it takes only a few. Regulated hunting is an important tool in wildlife management, but one wishes that hunters were required to engage in more and periodic training.

Stranger

15

No, this wasn’t murder. Hunters, especially new/young hunters, shoot quite often when they haven’t fully identified their target. It’s horrible, but it happens. It rarely ends up with a death, and when it does, it’s usually another hunter not a hiker. But to leap from this to murder is, IMO, silly. We should do everything we can with training to avoid this happening, but it’s going to happen.

In the White Mountain National Forest where I do most of my hiking, hunting is allowed pretty much everywhere. There’s no signage because the default is that hunting is allowed. If I were to not hike when there are hunters in the woods I’d never hike. Most hunters stay away from popular trails because all the game is scared away by hikers, and it’s a pain in the ass to haul out game from rugged terrain. They hunt lower down, near woods roads that have easy access to haul out game.

The burden is always on the hunter to wear orange. If you require hikers to wear orange then you are placing some of burden on them. The burden is entirely on the hunters to know what they are shooting at. When I hike during deer season I wear orange because it makes sense, but it’s not a requirement nor should it be.

16

I’ve had bullets in the siding of houses where I lived twice in my life. Don’t tell me they were trying to murder me. The DNR wardens tell about hunters using there scopes to check out people. They go after them when they see that. People must be using the it won’t go off on me method when they do that, but it still ends up being fatal at times. One of those bullets in the house was because they didn’t know how far a bullet can go, so they thought they could shoot towards the house. Once again stupid person, but not trying to kill me.

17

What were they planning to do with the bear after they’d shot it, anyway? Could a 14- and a 16-year-old haul a dead bear out of the forest by themselves?

18

Their bear story is a little hard to swallow. The woman was not hiking alone either, so investigators hhave to believe that a woman in a bright blue poncho, standing in an open field, right next to another human being could be reasonably mistaken for a bear.

If they saw her in silhouette, bent over rummaging in her pack… Maybe… But with another hiker standing on the trail? It seems hard to believe. And you don’t shoot unless you’re 100% sure of your target, and in an open field, you have plenty of time to doublecheck. If it turns out they were horsing around and putting humans in their sights on purpose (pretending to be snipers or something, but not meaning to fire), they should go to prison.

I’m planning a climbing trip right now. None of my guidebooks or trail maps mention anything about hunting being allowed where I’m going. Note to self: Call the ranger station.

19

Eesh. We were thinking about a climbing trip to Rumney next year. Can I expect a bunch of hunters in the woods?

20

What the fuck?!?!

Anyway if you’re hunting you should be carrying a pair of binoculars. Use those, if you insist upon “checking out” people.