That is excellent advice, ThisUserNameIsForbidden. I will definitely pass this on to my brother.
Thank you.
If the son’s exclusive use of the account is only a few months away and the maximum damage she would be likely to do (initially) is $3000 before he gets wind of her withdrawing I really would just let the issue alone and roll the dice.
From what you have described a huge shit storm would ensue if she pulls money out of the son’s account and alienate the kid from her. If you really think there is a serious chance she will plunder the account completely drain it now to a different non-accessible account, otherwise play it cool. Those are really your only options based on your description of the scenario.
This is exactly what my brother thinks. To him, it would almost be worth $3K to have his son’s mom “dead to him”. However, we are talking about $3K, and with two kids on college at the same time, along with paying alimony and house payments, it’s a significant amount of money.
I’m only trying to look out for my nephew’s best interest.
I have been through plenty of family politics. That is a bad idea. Don’t set traps for people (especially parents) to fall into especially when there is loss to minors involved. It is 3K after all and it is your nephew’s money. Have him transfer it to a different account. If the mother goes for it and freaks out, you still get the same emotional result plus he still has his money. That is what you call a win. If she never goes for it, it is a double win. Either way, he wins. I don’t understand why this is debatable. If you are really interested in him, just move the money and let the political family chips fall where they may.
I will tell you from experience she can indeed take all of his money. My dads did this to me. I had a savings account that he had to cosign for my 12 year old self.
When I was 17.5 years old I had about $5,000 in this account. Dad took it all. I now had no money for college. I also had no money for buying, fixing, and selling cars as an income source. His theft of my funds was surprising to me. I had considered that he might steal my money out of my savings account, but I had thought that he was above this. I was wrong. He set me back about six months as far as saving money was concerned. He told me he took it as a loan. I never did get this money back. It did not hurt our relationship as we had none.
I warned my brother and sisters that he would do this to them as well. They learned from my mistake. They pulled their money out and had my oldest sister keep it in her account at a different bank for them until they turned 18. Wise move! They did it all at the same time. This was also a good idea as the bank called my dad as soon as they left with their money. He got very angry when he found out that they had done this.
Sir Viks, if you can get your nephew to draw most if not all of his money from this account. If he will not, could he put it all into a CD? That way she cannot withdraw it without a major hassle. Then when the CD matures, he will be of age. It may help, well, it might!
IHTH, 48.
Wow, what a story. Yes, this definitely helps.
THIS is what I was talking about. Yes, I have encouraged my nephew/brother to take most (if not all) of the funds and put it into a 6-month CD. My brother tells me that will respect his son’s decision, and his son wants to keep the money where it is. Almost daring her to take it. My nephew has stated that if she dared to take any of that money, she “would be dead to him”. On one hand, I think that’s a good thing, as she really is no moral compass in his life. However, it could set him back financially for college.
May I ask, in your situation, did you ever consider legal prosecution against your dad? Or, as I fear, since he was linked to your account, was this not possible?
Shag, you’re preaching to the choir. I hear you, and I would do the same thing.
However, I have repeatedly told my brother that this should be done, and he tells me he wants to respect the wishes of my nephew, who doesn’t want the money moved. Believe me when I tell you that it is my nephew’s money, and he wants to give 100% of this money to his dad to help pay for college. Again, NOT his mom.
I think deep down, after all that has happened, with all the evidence staring him in the face, there’s a belief that a mother wouldn’t do this to her own son. I think he is testing her, and I am afraid of the consequences.
So, considering that my bro & my nephew are resolute in NOT moving the money, and my worst fear comes true (she takes it all), I’d like to think that my nephew could take his mom to court. I’m just not convinced they’d win.
One other thing that I should bring up is a past story about my brother’s divorce.
My bro & his ex-wife had an agreement (between them – not in writing) that their combined savings would be used to pay the taxes on the house they live in. This happened two times a year (in October & January). So both of them would place money into this account.
In October 2011, she served him with divorce papers, but the tax payment was still made. They still lived together in the same house until she finally moved out in May 2013 (in fact, for the last year, they slept in the same bed, but didn’t say one word to each other). In November & December of 2011, my brother noticed that his ex-wife was going “shopping” frequently at two local stores (selling groceries and merchandise), but would not come home with much. He later determined that those two stores allow you to pay by check up to $100 OVER the total price, and that the cashier would give the difference in cash back to the check writer (her).
In short, she was taking money in increments of $100 directly from their joint checking account. And this was happening A LOT.
In January 2012, he made the tax payment as normal, but shut down the joint checking & savings accounts. He eventually took what was in this joint checking account and split it evenly between them, but used the (roughly) $3K to pay the taxes (as they verbally agreed to).
She believed (incorrectly) that those savings were HERS. She took my brother to court to recoup the savings, but a judge denied her request completely. It should be noted that for the next 16 months, she lived in the same house as my bro, but didn’t contribute one penny to any of the taxes, mortgage, utilities, food bills, etc. She lived bill-free until my brother paid her accrued equity in the house (roughly half of the total equity in the house). Then she moved out.
I fear that even though the court sided with my brother regarding the savings (as it was a preexisting arrangement), she still feels wronged by the court’s decision. It was not very long after this ruling that she decided to attach her name to this account.
Yet another reason why I think she feels “entitled” to my nephew’s savings, and why I fear this is a game of chicken that my bro & his son may lose.
If it was your brother setting up this “trap” for his ex-wife I would be all over encouraging you to talk him out of it but it’s your nephew and from my point of view it sounds like he’s looking for an excuse.
I’ve lived with a toxic parent and I know the fallout that occurs when you cut them out of your life “She’s your mother, how can you not talk to her” etc etc. For your nephew it very well might be worth 3k to have his mother out of his life and to have an easy answer to shut down the critics. She STOLE from me.
You are absolutely right. He may be just looking for an excuse to cut his mother out of his life. My brother is only respecting my nephew’s wishes on not touching the account (as well as expressing my concerns to him).
You’ve done your best to advise him, but at the end of the day it is his life, his money, his relationship with his mother, and his decision. Quit agonizing about a decision that truly is none of your business.
When a child has a bank account one or both of the parents are usually named as trustee on the account, however the money ultimately belongs to the child for his full use when he reaches the age of majority. This means that the trustee(s) can make withdrawals for good faith needs of the child. It does not mean that they can take the money for their own personal use. As a trustee, they owe a fiduciary duty to the child to be good stewards of his money.
I’m not sure about NY specific law, but as a general rule she may NOT, NOT, NOT use the kid’s money to pay a portion of her 25%. That is her obligation. The kid’s money is his own. If Mom abuses her trustee power to convert the kid’s money to pay for her own debt, she is in breach of the trust and can be held liable. An attorney could also attempt to get an injunction prohibiting her from disbursing funds from that account. Call an attorney.
And tell him what? It’s not her money; it’s her nephew’s. And he hasn’t requested help. Besides, it would be really stupid to hire an attorney to file an injunction when there is another very simple, completely free way to protect his money, that he refuses to take.
You can’t just go around hiring lawyers on behalf of people who don’t want to be helped.
Could you convince him to move most of the money and leave an amount that would be less damaging to lose in the account she has access to? It’s still testing her, as she still has the chance to take it. But the downside is lower for your nephew.
Yes, I have proposed that exact scenario. Nothing happens.
Sigh . . . Maybe I should just keep out of it. I’ve said my peace, presented the worst case scenario, and it’s up to them to decide what to do.
I guess my purpose for starting this thread is to learn if she can legally seize these funds, and it’s sounds to me like she might not be able to legally do this. If it was my money, I would want to be better off safe than sorry. But it’s not my money.
sir viks, No, I did not bother to waste my time with this. He had every “right” to take my money as it was a joint account. Morally of course he had NO rights to my money, but legally, he had every right to it. I chose to let it go, as the anger was hurting me much more then it was hurting him. He just did not care that he had stolen from his son.
Legally, this case maybe different as she attached herself to his account after he had it established. I hope that mom does NOT take his money. If I were a betting man though, I would bet against the mom. There is no reason for her to have taken the actions that she has taken, if she did not plan on stealing his money.
At this point you have done all you can. The nephew has made his choice. For the sake of your sanity, let it go. Remember to be supportive of your brother and nephew, especially if this goes south for them. No “I told you so” should be even inferred from what you say. I know that you care about them. Show the concern for them to them.
One more piece of advice, do not bad mouth the mom, they will do enough of that for all of you. There is a remote possibility that she will see the error of her ways and want to re-enter their lives at some future time. Do not be the one that they recall as hating mom. You are allowed to hate what mom did, but please, do not bad mouth her. Take the high ground. I’m pulling for you here!