Previous thread where a beginner was looking for a first, cheap guitar. Rondo, Squier were mentioned. Predictably I championed GuitarFetish ;), but there was some good discussion of alternatives.
I’ve sent him all the links. If you run into a tall, skinny redhead with freckles and braces in a guitar store in the next few days, it’s probably him. Feel free to introduce yourself so he can thank you personally. 
Appreciate all the help!
OK, I got over to Guitar Center, just got back. They had only 3 of the sub $200 Epiphones to choose from, an Epi Les Paul Junior, and two Epi Les Paul Special II guitars. The major difference between those guitar designs is that the Special has two pickups and a separate bridge and tailpiece, where the Junior has one pickup and a cheaper “wraptail” bridge/tailpiece. In thoery, they should feel quite similar, but I found this wasn’t the case. I really didn’t like the Junior at all; it felt cheaper, the bridge didn’t look solid, the neck felt wrong to me. Maybe if there were 4-5 in the store I could pick out a good one, but this one wasn’t a good one.
I was much more impressed with the Epi Les Paul Special IIs. The first one I tried was a cherry sunburst, like the one I linked to, and it felt like it could be a solid guitar. The fit and finish was very good, the paint looked great, and the frets were dressed properly with no rough edges. The action (distance from the strings to the neck) was far too high, but I managed to crank down the treble side of the bridge so it was somewhat comfortable and took it for a spin. I tuned it up, and the tuners weren’t too bad, better than most cheap guitar tuners; I played for a bit and tuned again, and it was out about as much as you’d expect and stayed reasonably solid the rest of the time I played it. The nut seemed finished correctly and the strings didn’t hang up in it when I was tuning. Plugging the guitar in, I played for a while, and it felt quite good. The pickups sounded like, well, cheap pickups, but that’s what you’d expect; the controls operated correctly and the pots were noise free. Overall I give it a thumbs up, and I think a good example of this model would be an excellent first guitar. Sadly, I played the second one in the store, and the setup was so terrible (the action again very high, but higher, and the bridge pickup was cranked way up high, nearly touching those too-high strings) that I couldn’t really form an impression. This one was black, and also looked very nice and I think properly set up would be the equal of the cherry guitar I wrote about above, but it’s hard to say.
I have one of these and after a bit of tweaking/set-up, I LOVE LOVE LOVE it… the pick-ups are great, and the neck feels awesome
Wow, thanks, squeegee, I’ll copy your post to him. He won’t understand most of it – “What’s a fret”, I can hear him say – but it will help.
If I got too far into the weeds, apologies. Bottom line is it felt solid, felt good in my hands and was comfortable to play (but would play better if set up well), stayed in tune, and sounded acceptable. These qualities can all be problematic in a cheap guitar and I felt this one overcame those well and was a good value for the money. I liked it a lot. I have the GuitarFetish equivalent of this guitar, and I think mine is better, but the Epi I liked at Guitar Center wasn’t bad at all.
I’m probably the guy mentioned upthread with the Rondo guitar. I have this one. $109.99 Plus shipping. I like it a lot, it sounds and plays as good as guitars that are twice the price. 
But like the Epiphones squeegee tried out, it did take a bit of setup before it played right.
I wouldn’t steer you away from the Epiphones, either. They are generally good, inexpensive guitars. As squeegee mentioned, their least expensive models can be hit or miss quality-wise, but once you get away from the cheapest ones, they are pretty solid. I have one of their mid-level basses, and it’s a great bass. Much better than its price would lead you to believe.
In my experience, the biggest problem with most of the inexpensive guitars at stores is that they are set up horribly. No matter what guitar you buy, it would probably be a good idea to have a professional setup done on it. They usually run about $30-40.
Nah, it was the OP in the thread I linked to above, not you. Glad to hear another recommendation on Rondos, though.
This. Pay a guy who knows what he’s doing to make your new shiny instrument shinier to play. It really does help.
Scabpicker: when I was in GC today, I picked up a couple Squier Affinities to compare to the Epi’s. One I picked up was a SA Tele; it felt okay until I tuned it up, then played an open chord - woah, out of tune? Nope, it was in tune. Play the open A again: bleah, out of tune again, WTH? Then I looked at the bridge, and the saddles looked like this: – – – – – . Oops.
Deplorable, just deplorable. Ten minutes with a screwdriver and a tuner would make that guitar sell much faster, wouldn’t ya think?
Great post squeegee. I’ll also add that when I was starting out on my first guitar, the action on my guitar (height of the strings above the frets) was very high and, out of ignorance at the time, I struggled quite a bit. This is what squeegee is describing. When the action is too high, it is difficult (near impossible) to develop clean and fast technique, instead you get frustrated with lots of muffed picks and notes. What seems to be a good guitar to a beginner may not actually be.
10 strings? Well, there’s your problem right there, you were in the mandolin section 
I think the question is do the people buying these starter guitars know to ask to have them set it up properly? Sure, the store managers should insist on them being set up properly before they get put on display.
And do you trust the guys at Guitar Center to do it (since they didn’t do it right the first time) or do you take it to someone else?
GC doesn’t set up the guitars they display at all, as near as I can tell, at least the two I go to. However they come from the factory is how they will be in the store. My GC claims to set up every guitar (I asked), but I absolutely don’t believe it. I’ve even gotten them unboxed in the store and compared the newly unboxed one with the identical model on the peg, and the setup was extremely similar, bad or good in the same ways. A specific example is a Fender Standard Stratocaster. I was shopping for a specific color, and they had one in the back and pulled it out; the guitar was shipped with the strings loose, so I tuned it up and noticed the same thing about it as another I’d played off the peg: the trem was setup with the springs too loose, making the bridge rise too far rather than just a bit (1/8" is the Fender recommendation), so the action was too high. Like the other 3 Fender Standard Stratocasters (rosewood SSS) I’d tried hanging on the pegs in the store, the trem tension on those was identical to this one: too loose in what seemed exactly the same amount.
The no set-up thing annoys the ever living sh*t out of me. How am I supposed to buy an instrument from your fine establishment if it is not even playable? What am I supposed to do set it up myself?
I am surprised about the EPIs not being set up though. When I was doing shows at Gibson Artist Relations in Austin all the EPIs came reasonably set-up. They were shipped from Korea to Nashville where QC, restring and tweaking were done and then they were shipped out. I have pulled new ones out of the box that were in tune enough to play. Le sigh, hate to see that change.
Capt
Yeah, I’m a day late and a dollar short here, as per usual, but I’m liking my Rondo Hawk. I’m not experienced enough to give a detailed rundown, but I’ll say that the wood cuts, neck joint, finish, fretboard, etc, all seem clean & well-fit/finished, and there’s nothing about it that’s frustrating me or making me not want to play. That last bit was a worry for me, but so far so good. Had to change the bridge saddles (a minor issue that I wasn’t surprised by in a guitar in this price range), but everything else seems just fine, and it stays in tune pretty well.
It’s everything I’d hoped an inexpensive guitar would be. It lets me play guitar, and doesn’t piss me off.
Face! Thanks for dropping by, dude. I’m glad you’re happy with that Rondo; I wouldn’t have brought up the brand up in this thread if not for your happy ending with yours. And now we know a second doper, scabpicker, who also liked his.
Not completely on topic but: I used to play guitar quite a bit but it’s been a good 15 years since I was serious about it. I still have my old Hondo Flying V (yeah, go ahead and laugh, everyone else does 
and a wayyyyy too big Fender Super Twin I bought when I was 18 (who else would need a 180W amp to play in a basement?). However, they have been for the most part peacefully aging in a closet and about once a year I drag them out for 30 minutes. However, I read about Rocksmith on another thread here and decided I wanted to start playing again and maybe this would motivate me. I got Rocksmith about a week ago and I can’t stop freaking playing the thing. My finger tips are out of shape and so were in extreme pain but are now starting to toughen up. Anyway, I love the thing. Learning new songs, playing games and getting back into it. Even came with Blitzkrieg Bop…probably the first song I played on the Hondo way back when.
I’ve been enjoying it, too, but would it kill them to have some documentation? There are symbols that come up in the game that I don’t know what they mean.
Yes, there is a learning curve to it. I still don’t know how to complete some of the missions. “Play a rocksmith recommends”? How? This weekend I plan on spending a lot of time with it and hopefully figure out some of the intricacies.