Kill Bill: Volume 2 (spoilers)

I enjoyed both these movies, but in the end the whole experience was like watching someone else play a really cool video game for a few hours, finally beating the game in the end. The Bride is your character, and you have to fight several stage-bosses before you get to the end boss, that is, Bill. Then ya kill Bill and win the game. There really wasn’t more to it than that. It was just a big video game with really good, life-like graphics and sound effects, experienced vicariously. That’s the Kill Bill 1 & 2 experience to me. But it was entertaining, for sure.

As a side note, I really hope they don’t make a video game out of it… it would be redundant.

“When will I see you again?”
“That’s the title of my favorite soul song of the seventies.”
“What?”

:cool:

I was disappointed. I still liked it overall, but to me it didn’t seem as much resolving the first movie as deflating it. Sure, there was so much energy and imagination and just reckless do-whatever’s-cool-by-any-means-necessary in the first, that some of that naturally spilled over into the second. But the first threw out so many references and gags and flourishes and just plain cool scenes that it seemed like it was going to explode, while the second just felt like they had a couple of cool ideas that they needed to stretch out into an over-long movie.

Maybe they had to pad it out to justify splitting the thing into two parts? That’s the more charitable explanation; the cynical part of me thinks that QT got too cocky and wanted to have both an orgy of B-movie cliches and references and action sequences and he wanted to “say something.”

Great stuff:
[ul]
[li] The Hong Kong shaky-zoom into Pai Mei’s face throughout the training sequence. In fact, all of the cinematography in those sequences were just perfect – the flashbacks with Elle, shooting The Bride’s training through the holes Pai Mei had punched through the wood, etc. Plus the sound effects in those scenes were perfect.[/li][li] Putting the training sequence in the middle of the buried-alive sequence; it kept it from being a disjointed flashback (that obviously was essential to the movie because it was cool) and made it all flow together.[/li][li] The shot of The Bride’s feet headed towards Elle.[/li][li] The whole fight scene with Elle. Again, the SFX were astoundingly good – the whole thing just sounded loud and painful.[/li][li] The SFX as The Bride is being buried alive.[/li][li] The Bride entering the cafe and asking for a glass of water.[/li][li] The chair fight with Bill. I honestly expected a showdown on the beach in the moonlight, so I was surprised when the fight actually began and ended so quickly. Of course, that’s the way samurai movies do it.[/li][li] Showing Bill dead in the closing credits.[/li][li] The prologue (from the trailer), with The Bride’s rear-projection driving monologue.[/li][li] The Bride’s death scene when she gets shot by B.B.[/li][li] The Bride’s scene in the bathroom at the end of the movie.[/li][/ul]

What I didn’t like:
[ul]
[li] Budd should’ve been killed by The Bride, not Elle. We should’ve had a shot of The Bride “targeting” Budd with the Ironside theme, instead of all the failed ninja stuff. Then, instead of waiting for Budd to be killed by the black mamba villain, we should’ve seen Elle leave him for dead, get taken care of by The Bride, and then The Bride kill Budd. What kind of revenge story lets other characters do the main character’s dirty work?[/li][li] The movie needed some serious editing. The scene at the church at the beginning was way, way overlong. (Its originally being intended as one movie doesn’t excuse this; they had time to edit Vol 2 long after they’d decided to do it in two parts). So was the scene at the strip club where Budd worked, and so was Bill’s speech(es) at the end.[/li][li] The scene with the Mexican pimp was completely superfluous. It said nothing about the characters that couldn’t have been covered elsewhere, and the character itself wasn’t interesting enough to deserve a whole scene (unlike Pai Mei, or Honzo, etc.)[/li][li] Some of the scenes with Uma Thurman just reminded me that she’s not a very good actress. Overall, she’s just great in a part like this, but then the script called for her to show some variety/progression to her character – in particular, when she was playing the younger version of herself about to start her training under Pai Mei. It was all “I am acting like a naive young woman” instead of feeling as natural as the rest of the movie.[/li][li] I suppose it’s a nitpick, but the film noir style of the prologue and the credits just felt out of place with the rest of the movie. If there had been a chapter told in that style, before the thing turned into a western, it would’ve fit. Or, if the opening had been done in the style of a spaghetti western or a 70’s exploitation movie, it would’ve fit. As it was, it seemed like they tried to throw one too many film homages in and it finally backfired on them.[/li][li] I saw the snake in the briefcase coming a mile away. (Although I did at first think it was going to be a bomb.)[/li][li] Elle’s line suggesting an honor/respect among assassins was totally out of place. It was shown several times that she had no honor – she was perfectly ready to kill The Bride in her sleep, and she poisoned Pai Mei.[/li][/ul]

Well, then maybe you should deign to “explain” it to us. I would say just the opposite; anyone who thinks that the dialogue was all justified isn’t really “getting” Tarantino’s movies. In fact, I have to wonder if Tarantino “gets” Tarantino’s movies.

The guy has his strengths, and he has them in spades. He knows movies. He sure as hell knows how to film action sequences. He knows how to use violence in different ways – for laughs as well as for genuine dramatic effect. He knows how to break a story apart and put it back together in a more interesting order. He knows how to imagine scenes that are still shocking and surprising to even the most jaded audiences.

But he doesn’t know how to write dialogue. He comes up with some great lines, but he won’t stop there. He’s not as bad as Kevin Smith, but it’s the same type of thing – you have to know when to stop. You have to know how to edit out what doesn’t belong. The Superman speech, for example, didn’t say anything that couldn’t have been said just as effectively in about 2 minutes.

I must have been lucky. The audience in the theater here was strangely silent throughout the movie, aside from some chuckling in appropiate places. And the silence felt more like an “awestruck” silence, rather than a “bored” silence.

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Now, I too, thought the dialogue in KBV2 was a little long in parts, but this is an insane statement. Tarantino has given us some of the most memorable lines of dialogue in movie history, on top of some of the best two-person dialogues (scene 1, PF) and ensemble dialogues (scene 1, RD). He’s one of the few that actually gives us dialogue instead of a few lines that advance the story that look spliced together from separate days on the soundstage.

But, I can dig it a little – Like you said about the superman speech. See, I just didn’t like Bill so much. I think he prnounces things funny and his lines were a bit stilted, too “acted” if you will.

Regardless, I found some of the dialogue in this movie superfluous, but I liked the scene with the pimp and Budd’s scene with the Boss.

There was no need for Truth Serum. What the hell? How about just asking her the questions. As an audience member would you have said, “she’s going to lie to him and he’s not going to believe her, anyway”?

I liked the movie, but maybe I was hoping for more. A little more action, or maybe just better action sequences – it was good to understae them, but they were ALL understated in this one. I would have liked a little more about how they all got together and how they all fell apart.

Still, it has grown on me a little in the days since I’ve seen it and I look forward to seeing it again some time.

Hey, anybody see the April 19 FoxTrot comic?

http://www.ucomics.com/foxtrot/

I was fortunate enough to read the script for Kill Bill about two years ago. Of course, I loved everything I read, but I was a little disappointed that one scene in the script didn’t make it to the finished product.

I’m not going to put it in a Spoiler box, since it didn’t make it into the film, and thus may not have even happened.

Obviously one of the best parts of KBv1 was the introduction of O-Ren’s chief enforcer, Go-Go Yubari. It’s even referenced (and possibly shown, I can’t recall) that Go-Go has a sister named Yuki.

In the script, there is a scene that takes place in the second half of the script, in which Yuki learns of the death of her sister. She goes completely berzerk, and takes off in search of The Bride to exact her revenge.

Honestly, I felt that KBv2 badly needed a balls-out fight sequence, and this would have been fantastic. It’s hard to describe, but it would have been on-par with the House of the Blue Leaves sequence from the first one.

A shame it didn’t make it in.

I can’t disagree more. There is no underlying reason why B.B. didn’t react, or wake up, or cry out. The reason is because Tarantino is completely making fun of everyone who overanalyzes movies with this movie. There are so many great moments in KB that are absolutely absurd and over-the-top hilarious, that any analysis for meaning takes away from the pure fun that this movie is.

For instance:

[ul]
[li]The fact that you cannot take the goldfish story too seriously, because there’s a loaf of bread called “BIMBO” displayed prominently in the scene[/li][li]The box of cereal used to muffle the sound of Uma’s gun when she shoots Vivica is called “Kaboom!”[/li][li]Pussywagon[/li][li]Pai Mei’s beard (LOVE it!)[/li][li]“Serious” dialogue over(not under)scored by 70s “dramatic scene” music[/li][li]The collective circulatory system of the Crazy 88s[/li][li]etc.[/li][/ul]

Great movie, but I have a few questions. Maybe they seem nit-picky but so be it. Spoilers below, as noted in the thread title:

1 - why exactly did the Assassins HATE Beatrix so much? Out of loyalty to Bill, or because she tried to leave that kind of life? It looks like they all (except Elle) left anyway.

2 - why didn’t Budd kill Beatrix right away instead of shooting her with rock salt - did he just want the pleasure of torturing her?

3 - how do you thinK Bill ended up with B.B.?

4 - why didn’t Beatrix kill Elle? Are we to assume that she dies anyway, or was Beatrix just happy to take her sight?

Great comments and observations by everyone. Especially the symbolism of Bill’s sword and Beatrix’s sheath, didn’t even remember that until it was pointed out.

Myself, I thought the movie was absolutely flawless…until the end. Chalk me up to the list of people who wanted MORE MORE MORE from the final confrontation between Bill & Beatrix. When they finally whipped out their swords, I was like “Yes! This is it!” and five minutes later, Bill was dead. After all their dialogue, and after how obvious it was how much they still loved and respected each other, was I the only one who was expecting Beatrix to someone keep Bill alive after performing the 5 Point Exploding Heart move on him? I mean, he was pretty much under her control at that point, he couldn’t ever walk again. I thought I had predicted the end of the movie was going to be the happy family together, Beatrix pushing Bill in a wheelchair or something. But no, instead he walked off and fell down.

So other than that last part which left me a little flat, I thought it was perfect. Bravo, Quentin, bravo. I can’t wait to own them both on DVD, with the option of watching them as one film.

  1. Don’t know. I thought it would be explained. I guess in a way she did fuck bill over by just leaving and having them all think she was dead. Elle was just a bitch.

  2. No reason. Wanted to torture her a little. They were all a little sick.

  3. Not sure and it doesn’t really make sense. In KBV1, Elle was going to kill her 4 years after she went into the coma. Clearly, they had contact with her before that since Bill had the baby. Why wait 3 or 4 years before trying to kill her?

  4. She was just out to get revenge. I’d say she got it. QT showed the snake either right before or right after the pluck so maybe we’re to assume she got bit. Regardless, two plucked eyes is pretty bad.

But that’s basically what I went on to say. Writing good lines and even good snippets of conversation is only part of writing good dialogue; the other part is knowing when to quit, knowing what’s essential and what’s not. (And yes, I recognize the irony of writing a two-page post and then criticizing someone else for being too talky).

One of my biggest nit-picks against the first, which I thought was near-perfect: the conversation between The Bride and O-ren. “Did you really think it was going to be that simple?” “Yeah, I kinda did.” “Silly rabbit.” The dialogue should’ve ended right there. We all got the reference, and it would’ve been cooler if he’d just left it at that.

(One thing I just noticed in my long-winded post up there: I meant to type “the black mamba venom,” not villain).

And something cool that’s probably obvious, but I didn’t realize until I was thinking about it this morning: the other members of the Deadly Viper Assasination Squad are all aspects of The Bride. Vivica Fox’s character was the Mother. O-ren was the Warrior. Budd was Bill’s “family,” as well as an example of how the post-assassin lifestyle can go wrong. Elle was all of The Bride’s personal history and experience, with none of the honor or humanity. And by the end, The Bride became The Master.

I think I sounded more critical of the movie last night than I really am. I still think it’s a very good movie, it was just disappointing after the first just blew me away. It was definitely a good resolution to the first, and I thought it had a very satisfying ending.

I could be remembering wrong, but I think that Elle went to the hospital to kill Beatrix ~6 months after she went into the coma, not four years. Bill stopped her and then next thing it was four years later and Beatrix wakes up.

Personally I was glad that Beatrix didn’t kill Budd, only because I thought Elle’s reading to him was one of the greatest scenes of the movie. “Bites to the face… okay, pay attention here Budd because this part is about you… often cause…”

Of course I also liked the fact that Elle poisoned Pai Mei (if in fact she did). It’s almost on par with Indiana Jones shooting the sword slinger as a “fuck you” send-off.

Did anybody else retro-member that Bill said something to the effect of “Good luck, Kiddo” in the wedding chapel scene? I want to see Vol. 1 again to see when else “kiddo” is used.

The movie never mentions how Beatrix came to be with Bill in the first place, which I liked a lot but would love to know at the same time. We actually know more of O-Ren’s history than anybody else’s (though how her serviceman father went afoul of a Japanese crime lord isn’t mentioned). I’d love to see Hattori Hanzo resurface as well (and what an ideal choice was Sonny Chiba to play him).

Tarantino has mentioned (though it’s been years) doing a prequel to PF and RD about the earlier days of the Vega Brothers. I think it’d be cool as hell to work in Bill and Hattori if he ever does that. (I wonder if he was ever attempted to take a samurai sword to John Stevens or any of the others on American Idol.)

I don’t know about the other stuff you listed, but Bimbo Bread is a real brand.

I haven’t seen KB2 yet, but vol.1 didn’t disappoint me at all.

There is no question that there are great comedic moments that play to B-movie negative expectations. But you’ll pardon me if I think the movie is a little more thought out than Scream.

Chastain86
It’s even referenced (and possibly shown, I can’t recall) that Go-Go has a sister named Yuki.

In the script, there is a scene that takes place in the second half of the script, in which Yuki learns of the death of her sister. She goes completely berzerk, and takes off in search of The Bride to exact her revenge.
That would have been so Perfect.
While Beatrix is searching for Bill, Yuki pops in and initiates a fight. Then a quick little (30 second or so) backstory of Yuki’s quest up until finding The Bride and then a fight as good as the Go-Go fight scene? Whew… would have prolly save the film for a Lot of people (those that say it’s boring and is so different than the first one). Although I love the movie standing alone, it would have been great.

One question:
Where do you come across the script for such movies? Are you like… a film producer or is there somewhere on the internet you can read these things.
And also, are there any other extras that didn’t make the movie that were in the original script? Or possibly that was filmed but never made the movie (Like the knife throw from Bill on the KB2 site’s trailer).
Something that I want to clarify for myself, is the times of the first killings. My current belief is that The Bride awoke from the coma, got in the pussy wagon, learned how to wiggle her toes… :cool:, found out about O-Ren, flew to Okinawa and got the Hanzo sword, went and found O-ren and killed her, On the plane back to US, made the list, crossed out O-ren, got back in the Pussy Wagon, found Vernita, and killed her.
Is that… correct?
And something that added to the puzzlement of the chronology of those sequences, is: Why doesn’t The Bride use her Hanzo sword to kill Vernita?

I’m pretty sure that Kiddo kills Buck, steals his wagon, kills Vernita, flies to Okinawa, gets the sword, and then kills Oren. I’ve been trying to find a picture of the “Death List 5” to confirm, but I can’t find one with a cursory google search.

I would definitely have to agree with erislover. Tarantino will have bizarre references in his movies and oddities and the like, but most of what he does is quite deliberate it seems. This movie, as much of a homage as it is, still has its own plot and story and isn’t some movie simply making fun of the genre or the movie-goers.
If I were to explain why BB did not react in any way I would attribute it to the fact that in Bill and Kiddo’s universe, airplanes and vehicles come with sword holders. It’s a different world that KB takes place in and I think part of purpose of the fish dialogue and the “Shogun Ninja Assassin” sequence are to remind us of that.

Link to
**Kill Bill Script **.
(spoliers) :rolleyes:

If Yuki was half as hot as Gogo, that would have been worth the price of admission. (Sorry, I have a thing for Japanese girls. And that Gogo was damn fine.)

And speaking of Japanese girls, what kind of name is O-Ren? I’m a collector of Japanese idol scans, and so I’ve seen a whole buttload of female Japanese names. I have never seen a hyphenated Japanese name, nor have ever seen the name O-Ren. Plenty of hyphenated Korean names, but not Japanese. Wasn’t O-Ren half-Chinese, and is O-Ren a Chinese name?