Bullshit. It’s about writing what a character would say. Dialogue isn’t like writing a textbook. Bill is obviously the kind of character that would go into long, semi-pointless, semi-whimsical diatribes.
Tell me what’s “unrealistic” about that. Frankly, I’d find it far more unrealistic if every character’s every word were geared with vocal efficiency in mind.
Hmmpf. I meant “deliver” and “Kill Bill” - damnation, now I’ve lost the right to complain about people’s typos for at least a month. Bummer!
This is true, but the original bone of contention was not that Bill made his point, but that he could have made it in less time.
Tarantino had something he wanted Bill to explain, so he created an excuse for Bill to explain it without interruption. The truth serum was required for characterisation, butaving the truth serum work instantaneously would be bad writing, as would Bill saying it took a while to work before engaging “cinematic time”. Having Bill say the truth serum worked in a few minutes and then fading to black with a “Five Minutes Later” card would be better, but I feel it would have harmed the pacing not to have the monologue. You’re near the climax of the movie by this point, and building suspense requires time.
It’s also fairly clear (to me, anyway) that QT didn’t want the scene to drag on, or he would have set a longer time for the serum to work. It’s a pacing issue, nothing more.
Beatrix sees Sofie in the church as she’s being beaten up by the DIVAs after the massacre. It’s entirely possible that Sofie didn’t enter until after the shooting was done; they did whale on Beatrix for some time.
I heard you the first time, but I was ignoring you because it’s irrelevant. “Two minutes” is shorthand for “less time than the overly drawn out, purposeless monologue we got in the movie.” I didn’t have my stopwatch handy to time exactly how long it took, and I wasn’t listening to the amount of time he said because I was waiting for somebody to shoot somebody. Felt like 15 minutes to me.
I suggest you relax, and don’t you fucking condescend to me. And that’s the last I have to say about that.
What the hell was that all about? My opinion isn’t “bullshit.” And no, it’s not just about writing what a character would say. It’s about choosing pieces of what a character would say and forming them together to make a movie. Yes, Bill is the kind of character that would go into long and pointless diatribes; he’d already done so at several other points in the movie, and he and other characters had already delivered the essence of the Superman speech at other points in the movie. That speech was superfluous, and what’s worse, it didn’t feel like Bill talking but felt like Quentin Tarantino talking.
But I’m glad you brought up the point about realism. I’d forgotten how the rest of the movie was all filmed in cinema verite, what with the eyeball-gougings and flying out of graves and such. Mea culpa. Who complained about the dialogue being “unrealistic?” I complained about its being boring and ruining the pacing of the movie.
The scene didn’t work for me. What’s the problem? Jesus Christ, it’s crap like this that makes me almost miss the Tolkienistas.
Who wants to put money down that Budd’s given name is “Jay”?
Beatrix - often called “Bea”
Elle
O-Ren - called “O” a couple of times
Vernita - was she referred to as “V” at all?
I agree with this and it’s one of the things I like most about QT’s writing. Every line of dialogue doesn’t just exist to serve the plot. He often has people simply shooting the shit with no plot driven purpose at all. The “quarter pounder” exchange in Pulp Fiction had nothing whatever to do with the plot but it was arguably the most memorable piece of dialogue from any movie in the 90’s.
QT’s own monologue about Madonna’s “Like a Virgin” in Reservoir Dogs was similarly entertaining and funny and utterly pointless from the standpoint of the story. I find that realistic. People don’t just talk about exactly whatever activity they happen to be engaged in at any given moment. In PF, the exchande between Vincent and Jules helped to establish a sense that while whacking people out seemed extraordinary to the audience, to them it was just a day at the office. It was casual. They talk about goofy stuff at work just like everybody else does. It humanized them.
I got the sense that Bill was a little bit of a blowhard and a storyteller. He enjoyed telling his stories and expounding on his “insights.” It was at least partially an ego thing.
Anyway, I liked the Superman riff.
Saw it last night. Loved it.
I loved the overblown dialogue. Yes, I did think the scene at the church in the beginning dragged more than it could have, but I was completely hooked by all of Bill’s rambling at the end. David Carridine rocks.
Saw it today. I liked it, but didn’t love it, and didn’t enjoy it anywhere near as much as the first one (which I think is nigh-flawless). A lot of what I say is going to be stuff people have already said, so feel free to skim.
I loved the burial, the Pai Mai stuff, the Elle fight, and the final showdown with Bill. I thought the Mexican Pimp scene was one of the most pointless I’ve ever seen and that the opening scene in the Chapel was too long.
I understand that Tarentino was going for a different style with this part of the movie, and I support that in theory. My problem with the whole thing is basically that I liked the comic book-esque feel of the first one; I like the Bride more when she’s more of a concept than a real character, when she doesn’t necessarily have too much emotion bogging her down. That is, I like the Bride when she’s 2 dimensional, when you don’t know her name, when she’s telling the wounded Crazy 88s to leave their limbs behind; oddly, when she has a daughter and is crying over Bill, I immediately stop caring about her. The Bride is one of my favorite movie characters ever, but I just don’t care about Beatrix Kiddo at all.
So in a way, the second movie kind of detracted from the first. I liked it when I didn’t really know much about Bill or what happened that day at the chapel (I really dislike that we saw the Bride’s husband and friends). I liked the whole concept better when it was more of a pulp/serial/comic book thing light on drama and heavy on revenge and action. I thought it was a lot more fun and a lot more interesting
Also, I feel like most of the visual flair was used up in the first part. I loved the training sequences, and the burial was wonderfully shot, but nothing wowed me like the showdown at the House of Blue Leaves, Elle Driver’s nurse outfit, or even Vernita Green’s house. I also didn’t like the soundtrack to this part nearly as much as the first; nothing came close to how much I loved the 5,6,7,8’s performance or the uses of “Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood” or the Green Hornet theme.
All of this makes it sound like I disliked the movie, but that’s not the case. I did like it, and I’ll definitely be getting the DVD (as well as seeing it again in the theater, I’d wager), but I honestly think that I may have been better off had I only seen the first part (I was thinking today that if only the first movie had been released exactly as it was, I’d have been fine with it; I think the idea that it would have just ended in the middle of the story would have been cool, but that’s probably just me).
I like the superman speech, but I can see how people would dislike it. I liked it in part because I wouldn’t have minded Bill talking for a lot longer. When Bill talks you get to hear the perspective of a villain whose career is near its end. He is no longer as active a force of malevolence but still retains that perspective. Hearing him talk about things already mentioned not only shows us Bill’s take on thing but also shows us just how deeply infected everything is by Bill and his opinion. People less interested in Bill probably don’t want to hear as much of him playing his flute, talking about old racist Chinese men and kryptonian heroes with a low opinion of humanity.
Over the weekend I read an interview with QT in Entertainment Weekly (I think) from before KBv2 came out. He said he identified with the Bride, and that he planned on Warren Beatty being Bill. The conception was “…more the old sexy lion.” Sort of like an evil, older James Bond. Warren suggested David Carradine as a better choice and QT said that he brought a more mystic aspect of Bill. The article was interesting, and QT is apparently religious though he would not share his particular brand of faith.
I get Tarantino’s movies. But he really went overboard and the movie is much too cluttered. Part of what made KBI so good was that it was stripped down, without all the extraneous and ultimately, pointless, character development on the Bride.
This relal bothered me. Budd was arguably the most interesting character in the movie (1 or 2) and he got nothing at all. He was the only one who had anything on the Bride - not because he was a kick-ass killer, but because he was smarter. And then he got wiped and I was like WTF? He deserved much, MUCH better than that.
This was really problematic. I know some people loved the brevity of all, and ordinarily I would agree, but it was more like “5 seconds”. There was nothing here.
I’m sorry guys, but this flick is cleary inferior to part 1. It just doesn’t hold a candle to it. Too many mistakes and wasted opportunities.
I don’t think Volume 2 is inferior to Volume 1. They’re just different films, in both style and feel. Which is a breath of fresh air, when you consider than many sequels turn out to be practically the same film as the first. (And, since movie-goers these days are accustomed to those types of sequels, I knew there would be people who would complain about the differences between Volume 1 and Volume 2.)
Of course, Volume 2 isn’t really a sequel. And I do find it somewhat strange that, for two movies filmed to be one, the second half is so different from the first.
Anyhoo…
Just out of curiosity, what makes you think Budd was smarter than The Bride? He understood that they all probably deserved the revenge she was meting out, but I didn’t see any signs of superior intelligence.
If it was clearly inferior, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
You like KB1 better? That’s fine with me. I like KB2 better. This doesn’t mean that one of us has to be wrong or stupid or whatever - this just means we have different taste in movies. I don’t have a problem with you liking what you like. Just don’t tell me I’m wrong for liking what I like. Clear?
Probably because his stakeout for her was better than her stakeout for him. But I chalk that up to (a) bad writing for the Bride (no way would she have come in that door - that’s a major slipup) and (b) Budd’s life of boredom.
Would you mind telling me how else she was going to get into the trailer, if not by the only door?
Budd got the Bride because he knew she was coming. No other reason. Moral: winding people up may be fun, but it can get you killed.
Well, to be honest I think she would have been better off getting him to come out of the trailer; that’s what I thought her plan was.
At any rate, let’s not forget that O-Ren had ample time to prepare for the Bride’s arrival, since the latter was busy wiping out the Crazy 88 (and none to quietly, either). She may not have known the Bride was coming to the club, but plenty of time elapsed between her arrival there and her eventual meeting with O-Ren.
If the writer didn’t want her to be captured, she would set fire to the trailer.
Uh…wait for him to go to sleep? Peek in the window? Use some of her years and years of training to do a bit more surveillance? There was no reason for her to BARGE into the trailer knowing that (a) a trailer consists of incredibly close confines (not a good environment for using a friggin’ sword), (b) that she had no idea where Budd was situated inside the trailer, © barging =! stealth and (d) Budd isn’t a moron.
Would you mind telling me why her actions would possibly be justified?
I thought flinging open the door and charging in chest first seemed dumb, but not entirely out of character. She never was too careful.
She walked right up to Vernita’s house, IIRC, and basically gave Vernita a free shot at her in the kitchen.
She certainly announced her arrival to O-ren.
She had her guard down at Bills and if he’d been waiting in ambush in the back, she’d have been dead.
She almost got blasted during the scene she found out she was pregnant.
FWIW, I thought Budd had maybe put his boots there where she could see them under the door, and he was going to sneak out the back or something.
Yeah, but that’s not a very honorable or satisfying way to dispatch an enemy on the death list. It isn’t the Bride’s style to do car bombings or booby traps; I would think that is more Elle’s style. And she would have to stick around until the fire cooled to make sure he was dead.