Killing People is Easy

Large vehicles have existed for nearly a hundred years, but only in about the last ten has someone figured out that you can effectively weaponize them against a crowd and rack up a death count in line with that of a gun.

I could postulate that this directly follows from the airing of a Mythbusters episode where Adam and Jamie infinitely plow a large truck through an arena of parked cars. A murderous mind, seeing that video, might quickly realize that with the correct vehicle, you will not get bogged down by human bodies, no matter how large the sea of people.

I don’t that to be true, but certainly we can say that this is a vector for the germination of the idea.

Now, personally, if I close my eyes and think about it (and no, Misses FBI Agent, you don’t need to come ask me questions), I have no trouble envisioning novel, as yet unused methods of causing large scale death, at the hands of a single individual. I purposely decline from mentioning them because the thing that most saves us from them at the moment is the fact that most people are not very clever nor imaginative. If monkey is aware of something he can feasibly do, then monkey do. Otherwise, monkey does not.

Methods of killing are an evolutionary process. It takes some time until the desire to kill hits an individual who does have sufficient creativity and who has had exposure to something, like the Mythbusters, that would give him the genesis of the idea that will allow him to kill in a novel way that society is not guarding against.

Once that person comes along and proves the idea and the media reports on that success, evolution has found a path forward to keep the species known as “killing lots of folks” alive. And unlike a real creature, the only way to kill the species is to prevent knowledge of that technique from spreading. In our day and age, that is not going to be possible.

In the realm of suicide, there is a phenomenon known as “suicide contagion”. When one person - e.g. a student in a school - commits suicide, this is often followed by a number of other students also ending their lives in the same region.

These are people who were inclined to commit suicide already but maybe didn’t know whether certain techniques would work, they hadn’t seen the doting praise and love that is spent on the deceased, they hadn’t seen someone muster up the courage to go for it, etc. The person who, previously, only mulled the idea of death now has concrete evidence and motivation to go forward, and so they do.

And while it may seem like, “Well certainly that person will just one day go ahead with killing themselves anyway. This has simply impacted the time and place.” I sort of doubt the truth of that. Generally hormones lessen with age and usually lives stabilize and become more peaceful as the years go on.

Now, if I go to school, I may well receive training in how to deal with an active shooter, who is assumed to be one of my fellow students. That training teaches me how to most effectively counter the shooter, but conversely it provides a student who was merely considering how much he hates his life and all of the other students with a concrete lesson that, hey, this is a thing that can be done, that is commonplace enough that you may as well dump it into your everyday thought process, and (in inverse), the exact steps for going about it.

We also see, in the land of serial killers, a propensity for others to begin copy-catting the murderer, based on news reporting.

If you go onto YouTube, there is an infinite supply of videos on how to make things via 3D printing, chemistry, robotistry, AI, machine learning, etc.

If you go onto the Internet, there is an ample supply of locations for people to go and find others who consider it a good idea to kill oneself or others, trade tips, ideas, and videos.

Killing people is not hard. The genie has been out of the bottle on that one for a good long while now and it is not going back. Shutting down one vector of technical feasibility may, for a brief period, decrease the numbers of deaths that are the result of a human’s desire for someone to die. But it could just as well spur the path of inventiveness door something worse and harder to police to come into being.

This is far less a problem of tools of death than it is a problem of human desire, human creativity, and the spread and normalization of knowledge.

The things that we can maybe do something about in those paths are:

  1. To limit the knowledge, e.g. by requesting that the mass media not report on suicides, mass killings, serial killings, etc. and by not mentioning it training students and everyday workers for active shooters.

  2. Find ways to reduce the human impulse to kill, through economics, medical care, early detection of suicidal/murderous intent combined with laws that allow us to deal with these people pre-crime, and (potentially) gene-line modification.

If we really care about preventing deaths along these lines then dealing with the tools, in the age of the Internet and 3D printing, is not a viable, safe, nor sufficient path.

Humans are just big water balloons. Despite your belief in your resilience, the reality is that a thumbtack is enough to end you forever. We’re just not that hard to kill and technology is progressing at a far faster rate than human nature.

It depends on how good of friends you have.

”What was that?”

Stranger

I’m supposed to trust that bunch of clumsy oafs again?

You seem to have giving this quite a bit of thought … may I suggest taking up solving crossword puzzles as a hobby? …

I culled a previously accidentally submitted OP so that the real OP is first in this thread.

[/moderating]

Comedy is hard.

Of course no single law or path of action is going to miraculously solve complex and multifaceted problems of violence in society. I would think that would be self-evident. The aspect of your argument that I object to is the implication that because “dealing with the tools” may not solve 100% of the problems 100% of the time, it should be dismissed out of hand as an important facet of a multifaceted suite of remedies.

When one is “dealing with the tools” as one of the approaches to curtailing violence, one needs to make an unbiased, even-handed assessment of the benefits and utility of those “tools” versus their dangers, lethality and potential for abuse. With respect to guns, the US is unique in the world in adjudicating that balance very very differently than all other civilized countries, and it is suffering the consequences of that judgment.

Killing people with vehicles has been a thing for a long time. It was even in the intro of a James Bond movie. Then there was Deathrace 2000 and the computer game Carmageddon. Have you thought of using a combine harvester?

I’ve thought about this a little. Not with the productive, absorbed, ticking-time-bomb kind of evil our Rat has brought to the party, but, rather, in the sense that we have heard of sleeper cells and eager terrorists lying in wait just looking for some way, any way, of taking out many people at once. Supposedly these scary actors are all around us. But it keeps not happening.

The fact that many of the things that seem obvious to try aren’t getting tried makes me think there just aren’t a significant number of people so inclined.

Nah. Guns are a lot easier to kill people with. Also, if you want to end yourself too after the killing spree, its better to be holding a gun than a steering wheel.

Is there a debate here, or is this witnessing from a deep dark place of the soul?

I actually read that. To summarize - Don’t report mass murders, and don’t teach how to stop them. It gives people ideas. Ok then.

Why not report them on mass media? The social media genie is also out of the bottle. If the media ignores them then it would feel like a weird dystopian “all is well” mentality.

Only if you walk to the scene of the intended crime.

Didn’t the unsung inventor of the drive-by shooting tidily combine the concepts?

If the corporate media started pushing out tons of reports on how to create explosive devices, then do you think there would be more crimes committed with explosives or not?

The people need to know on the rare occasions someone has mixed a certain set of chemicals or create a certain device that it’s a bomb right? Well then weigh things out, is it worth educating the population on how common ways to make a bomb for the rare occasion they find one on the subway? Or is it better to not report about the technical side of the explosive device used?

Holy shit - you’re right!! Legs are the problem. Get rid of legs.

+1

Cars. They are dangerous. This has been understood since the beginning of cars. The phenomenon has been studied exhaustively and the conclusions used in a variety of ways: safer car design, laws against dangerous behavior with cars, and a system of licensing and registering cars such that one needs to be minimally qualified to operate one

Guns are dangerous- they were invented specifically to kill things. But the GOP gave us things like the Dickey Amendment, such that the phenomenon is not studied. Guns could be licensed and registered, but a certain segment of the culture is so hair-trigger about the issue that any proposal instantly gets translated as Repeal The 2nd, and so conversation is impossible.

I say license and register guns. It will still be easy to kill people, but at least that much harder for those with certain red flags.

Rephrasing and shortening the OP:

Specialized single-purpose items should always be legal no matter what they are, because items are legal, and specialized single-purpose items are still items.

Really?