(Kind of) Legal Question

Factual Questions
1

I’m desperately in need of help. A friend of mine, who we’ll call Robert (yes, a friend. If I were having similar problems I’d own up. Then have myself committed, I think. I can’t stand this soap opera crap.) recently broke up with his 17 year old girlfriend, who we’ll call Annette. Shortly thereafter, she “hooked up,” with a 20 year old. Let’s call him Jack. From what I’m told (I’m rather glad I was spared the gory details) Annette and Jack have already engaged in numerous forms of sexual intercourse, and though in Wisconsin parents have to press charges, rather than the state, already that seems to be statutory rape. I’ve got several questions that I’ll itemize. Anybody in a position to know who can answer them number by number, I’d appreciate it, because Robert is driving me crazy looking for advice. One last note: Jack claims to be a police officer for Brookfield, a nearby town.

  1. Robert had written an e-mail to Annette shortly after breaking up telling her why. He was still angry at that point and put in some comments that were out of line. Jack recently sent a reply e-mail saying that the comments Robert made in the message was slander and that he would “get his ass thrown in jail before he could get an attorny.” That may not be verbatim, but that was the spelling of attorney that Jack used. Now, as I understand it, slander is the spoken form of defamation of character. The term Jack would be looking for would have been libel. Assuming that’s what he meant, I still don’t think it applies because defamation of character, at least insofar as Wisconsin statutes define it (I’ve read excerpts from the actual books) is when untrue, negative comments that damage a person’s reputation (truthful comments are fair play, but what Robert said was subjective to opinion so I think most judges would consider it untrue) are made. The important detail is that those comments are spoken or written to parties other than whoever is being “defamed.” Robert erased his “sent” folder after the message was sent and doesn’t do carbon copies, so the only person who recieved the message was Annette. The only reason Jack saw it was because Annette willingly showed it to him. I haven’t seen the e-mail or heard any of the specifics, all I’ve been told by Robert is that he used a lot of colorful language and just kind of ranted through parts of it. Now, I’ve told him that given the circumstances he needn’t worry about charges being pressed because he hasn’t committed an act of libel (or, lol, slander, for that matter). If you would like, I can find and quote the exact law lain down by the state, but in a class I took a while back we went through loopholes in laws and case law in Wisconsin has demonstrated that the courts aren’t willing to recognize loopholes in defamation of character laws. So, given this, am I correct in telling him that he is not in violation of the law?

  2. Annette’s told Jack that on several occassions Robert hit her. I know Robert well enough to know that he would sooner die before hit a girl, and he has said that he’s willing to submit to lie detectors and any other tests to prove that he never laid a hand on her (at least, not in a hostile manner). I’ve told him on this count, as well, that he is in the right. Am I correct in doing so?

  3. As for the statutory rape I mentioned above. From what I understand, the parents have to press charges, but are there legitimate methods of bringing this to their’s or the state’s attention? Annette has kept her parents in the dark about her sexual activity, and Robert doesn’t want to tell them because it would seem at this point so soon after the breakup that he’s only trying to bring Jack down. I refuse to become directly involved by actually going in and doing anything. Suggestions?

  4. Jack has expressly threatened Robert about his supposedly hitting Annette, and has implied threats on other occassions. Robert tells me that for his own reasons, he doesn’t believe Jack would follow through (and when asked, he told me that he had other reasons than, “He’s a goddamn pussy.” That’s verbatim :smiley: ) but still feels uneasy. Ideas?

  5. Jack has tried to bribe Robert into friendship with cigarettes and the like. Robert is sixteen, and obviously declined because he’s gotten in trouble for that before and his mother (as well as myself: He doesn’t want to do stupid crap like that but his mom isn’t the most competent person around and he lapses easily) closely monitors him. Obviously, that’s illegal, offering cigarettes to a minor. What can be done? Robert has no proof of this, unless he did something like talked to Jack again with a tape recorder rolling in case he tried to do it again. That seems a bit shady, though, and I doubt it would hold up.

  6. Lastly (for now, at least. I think this covers all the bases but there’s likely more I missed), is there any legitimate way for us to verify that Jack actually is a police officer? At twenty years of age, a full blown officer seems unlikely. Also, actions listed throughout this post, including the cigarettes and threats, seem unlike a police officer. Another thing, I’d assume a police officer could differentiate between slander and libel, and would know better than to tell somebody they are going to be thrown in jail before even attaining legal defense. Lastly, he’s engaged to a woman of age (I’m not sure how old, I assumed early 20’s or 19). Jack being with Annette in the process of already being engaged is sick, and this past Friday he proposed to her. By Wisconsin law, you aren’t polygamous until you have married more than one person (so extramarital relations don’t fall under polygamy) but I still doubt a person of any integrity would do that. I have considered running his name by the Brookfield Police Department or asking him for his officer ID (I’m sure there are similar if not identical systems the country and world over; out here every officer has a three- or four-digit number, depending on the size of their department, or, more appropriately, the size of each various division, that corresponds to their badge) and confirming it with the Brookfield Police Department. Option B seemed best because any legitimate police officer would tell me his or her ID number (I was at a party last night where Muskego Police had to tell us to turn the music down. All three officers willingly gave me their numbers, and in unfortunate incidents where I’ve gotten caught in the middle [I lived in a home where there was a user. We had to have the cops come by on more occasions than I can count on two hands] all officers have willingly given their numbers). Then, I could verify the number with Brookfield, and if it passes, well, he’s a cop but is kinna delinquent of duty, it would seem, and if not, they’ve got a poser. Posing as a police officer, much less giving a badge number and what-have-you is fineable and, in some cases, jailable out here. Does that seem like a good idea?
    Thanks much for helping me bring a little peace into a friend’s life (and through that, my own. I’m about ready to start pulling my hair out because he’s been over so many freaking times), and any further details you may need, including exact citations of local and state laws, I would be happy to provide.

2

This isn’t your problem; this isn’t Robert’s problem, either. Robert, if I read your OP correctly, initiated this breakup. What does he care whether Annette “hooks up” with twenty-year old philandering police officers, octogenarian sharecroppers, dray horses, or Scientologists?

Hilarious.

Why must Robert communicate with Jack, ever?

You mean, without engaging in slander? Again, MindYerOwnBizness.

Threats of bodily harm one minute, and bribery into friendship the next? Something smells about this…

Why, again?

Well… Let’s say Robert is at a local convenience store buying some nachos and sodas and Jack is waiting for him when he comes out. He says something like “Robert! You’re damn lucky it’s [not Tuesday, my elbow hurts, my mom is in the car], or I’d be mopping up with your ass right now!”

So, being legitimately in fear of bodily harm, Robert calls 911, right then. Robert will find out soon whether Jack is a police officer.

3

I agree with Ambush. Both of you need to forget Annette. She sounds like a shitload of trouble. Who cares if Jack is a cop? If Annette is telling lies about her relationship with Robert in order to instigate trouble between Jack and Robert, she is evidently disturbed and needs to be ignored.

Statutory rape statutes usually draw the line at 16. Since Annette is 17, she is legally able to consent. At 20 years old, Jack is not too old to be dating her.

If Robert doesn’t have sense enough to leave the situation alone, I hope you do.

4

My non-lawyerly advice is to stay as far away from this situation as possible.

That being said, to answer your first question, defamation (in general) is communicating false information about a second person to a third person. So Robert emailing Annette lies about Jack constitutes on its face defamation. If Jack is indeed a police officer then other considerations come into effect since he is a “public figure.”

5

I only feel qualified to respond to points 1 & 2 on defamation. Bear in mind that I’m foreign, though I think the law is similar (common law jurisdiction, not the law relating to public figures).

(A) If the comments were about Annette, to Annette, there is no publication and no defamation. In which case, read no further and tell Robert to forget about it.

If the comments were about Jack, to Annette, there was publication, though the defence of qualified privilege could apply - if Robert had a (moral) duty to make them to Annette and was not motivated by malice.

(B) Mere insults or abuse aren’t considered defamatory, as the reasonable man wouldn’t lower his opinion of the subject as a result.

© Libel or slander? Traditionally, libel was written and slander was oral - the rationale for the distinction was the permanence of the communication. IMHO, e-mail would probably be classed as libel, as there is often a permanent record. There may be a precedent on this in your jurisdiction. The relevance is that libel is actionable per se, but for slander, the plaintiff would have to show special damages (ie actual economic damage) resulting from the publication in order to sue. However, even if you can technically bring a libel action without showing damage as a prerequisite, you’re likely to get nominal damages as an indication of the court’s displeasure, which sometimes leaves the plaintiff facing significant legal costs.

(D) Jail? I’m used to defamation being part of Tort law, giving rise to civil actions. Frankly, since there is no damage resulting, even if Robert technically defamed Jack to Annette, I can’t see Jack going to the trouble of suing (for the reason mentioned above). Now maybe you’ve a strict criminal defamation statute, but I don’t see Robert being thrown in jail for a few intemperate remarks to a former girlfriend.

  1. Now that is slander.

Just my opinion on the other points, but what does Robert hope to achieve by trying to get Jack in trouble for statutory rape and offering Robert cigarettes (the latter of which seems rather trivial)?

6

Atlantis’s location is Wisconsin; it’s 18. Not that it matters; it also occurred to me that were Robert able to cause Jack to come up on some kind of statutory rape charges, Robert himself is vulnerable as well to a charge, whether or not Annette and he ever actually did anything.

7

Since there is an actual law in Wisconsin written out and everything, probably best to rely on that law rather than on general common law principles in answering the question…

So if an email is sent with false information about a third party a crime has been committed (possible defenses include among others the truth of the statement, lack of intent or that the lie doesn’t expose the other to the things noted in section 3). This is of course the criminal definition. The civil tort of defamation also exists.

8

Mea culpa.

I got a bit excited, thinking I was actually in the rare position of knowing something about a question.

9

As others have suggested, it seems to me the best course of action for Robert is to just stay awway from Annette and Jack. Based on the account given, neither of them seems worth the trouble of messing with.

In theory Annette could try to press charges for assault. The fact that somebody tells the police that something illegal was done does not mean the police are going to respond though. People tell policemen they want someone arrested all the time and get ignored. If Annette did complain to the police now, it seems likely they’d ask why she didn’t complain when the incidents supposedly occurred–or at least before her bruises disappeared.

As stated above, defamation requires publication–that is, saying something to a third party. You will notice this is addressed in the first line of the statute listed. This is true of defamation whether it is treated as a crime or as a tort. Again, as with the allegations that Annette was struck, you need to ask yourself if it seems likely that the police and the courts would be all that interested anyway.

Yes, the story of Jack being a policeman at 20 sounds prettty weird. Then again, he sounds pretty weird all round. Do you know Jack’s last name? For your own peace of mind, you or another person might call the police in the nearby town and say: “Hello, is Officer So-and-so available?” I’m betting that whoever answers will say: “Who? we don’t have an Officer So-and-so.” Alternatively, they might have an officer with that name but who isn’t any twenty-year-old. Anyway, it’s worth a try.

10

By the way, I am an attorney, although I don’t practice in Wisconsin. Neither do I have much experience in the areas being discussed, aside from dealing with numerous domestic abuse cases in civil practice.

11

Jack sounds like a BS artist extrodinaire.

He’s too young to be a cop, he doesn’t know the difference between slander and libel, he tried to supply a minor with tobacco products.

And did Jack tell Robert that Annette told him [Jack] that Robert hit her? (whew!) That is, how did Robert find out that Annette’s been telling Jack these things? If it’s just from Jack, it just sounds like more BS to get under your friend’s skin.

Also, how does he know that they’ve “engaged in numerous forms of sexual intercourse”? If they’ve told him that, it just sounds like they’re trying to make him jealous. If he is, then they’re winning. Tell Robert to forget her. Either her new love is jealous that someone was with her before, or she’s trying to get revenge for the break-up. Tell him not to let them get to him.

If there’s any justice, her parents will wise up and do something. But then again, he shouldn’t care. For what it’s worth, if and when they get married, it’ll probably end in divorce, as it usually does between two such people.

12

Actually, he isn’t (in theory) too young to be a cop- in most states, the minimum requirement to wear a badge is a high school diploma and succesful completion of an in-state police academy.

However, most precincts will no longer hire officers without a degree, preferably in criminal justice, and the odds of “Jack” having finished college AND the academy at the tender age of twenty are slim.

If you must know if he’s a cop, the Brookfield PD is probably required by statute to tell you whether or not person X is employed therein; if he’s a peace officer, you have to be able to make sure, in case he, say, writes you a ticket and happens to be a faker with a nicely kitted out squad car.

13

On two occasions when I wanted to know if someone was an employee I just called and asked for him (not from my phone due to caller ID); either they don’t recognize the name or they say he’s not there, or they give him the phone (at which time you hang up).