This article appeared in Sunday’s “Sunday Mail” Newspaper in Brisbane. Basically, it states that a number of Brisbane Kindergartens have “banned” appearances by Santa Claus at their BBQs.
Even PM John Howard has weighed in stating :
He also went on to say that it was “absolutely ridiculous” for kindergarten operators to ban Santa from Christmas celebrations or for shopping centres to ban nativity scenes.
I for one don’t have a problem with Santa Claus not appearing at Christmas parties. Australia could hardly be called a particulary religous country, and I fail to see that Santa has anything to do with a celebration of Christmas.
It was also interesting to note that Marylin Beale, the director of the centre quoted in the article, has received death threats as a result of the article. I saw her on this morning’s Today program, where she stated that the article had misrepresented her, and made the following points:
[ul]
[li]The article implies that 70% of the children at the centre are from “Christian” backgrounds - she actually told the paper that 30 of the hundred kids were from “English as a 2nd language background”[/li][li]This is in fact the 4th year that there has been no Santa at the BBQ[/li][li]The centre in fact has a christmas tree and other decorations around this time.[/li][li]In other years, many of the kids have been terrified of the Santa.[/li][li]The centre recognises a number of cultural events such as chinese new year etc. in addition to christmas[/li][/ul]
Does anyone else have a problem with a private organisation ‘banning’ Santa appearances, or even not holding Christmas celebrations, particularly when parents have ample opportunity to take their kids to see the fat man?
I think it is a bizarre storm in a teacup. My mother’s director of a childcare centre in Brisbane. They’ve not had Santa at the end of year party (it’s not a Christmas party) for the same reasons that Marilyn Beale gives.
Our centre doesn’t even call it a Christmas party because of the various different cultures represented in our children (my kid attends the centre BTW). Until this year it has never been an issue at all.
I don’t see that my son is deprived in any way whatsoever because the fat bloke isn’t handing out presents. There’s no scared kids and no drama. It’s not an essential part of Aussie culture that we need to emphasise. This way nobody (including Fundamentalist Christians) get their knickers in a knot. Excluding Santa makes the end of year celebrations more inclusive rather than less.
Oh and FWIW the centre my mother works for is not a private centre.
I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. In his usual diatribe on the Today program, Alan Jones (a fairly right-wing talkback host) entered into the fray, quoting from a paper written by an Islamic group containing advice on how to cope with Christmas events hosted a children’s schools.
The selective quotes that he used were not even terribly problematic - they were basically stating that parents should be aware that schools can have these celebrations, and problems can arise with younger children ‘expecting christmas gifts at home’ etc. He finished his little opinion with something like “Somebody should explain to the Muslims that tolerance of other religions means being tolerant of their customs and traditions”.
You people are lucky. The Sydney press has been inundated with the news that not only did a school principal want Santa left out of Christmas, he told his young pupils that Santa does not exist. Since then all we hear and read is outraged people on talk back radio, letters to the editor, columnists, editorials. The Daily Telegraph today has a fold out “Save Our Santa” Poster.
Mind you I found it pretty funny to read that the school that told the pupils Santa is a myth, teaches creationism.
Because Santa personifies the spirit of fun and giving and wonder that is the essence of the holiday. I see no reason why Muslims and Jews shouldn’t go ahead and put up a tree and exchange presents on Christmas. These aren’t Christian traditions, they secular ones (they’re pagan in origin, but that can be forgotten). Observing the birth of Jesus was foisted onto the existing winter solstice festival, but if Jesus had never been born we’d still be celebrating Yuletide and you’d barely notice the difference.
I see no reason why Jews or Muslims or Fundamentalist Christians should be forced into participating in Santa rituals.
The issue is not that Jews, Muslims, Hindus or whoever cannot choose to participate in Santa – the issue is that if a childcare centre decides to have Santa present and call the end of year celebration a Christmas party, they run the risk of families missing out.
And for what? Our party has 300 guests at it every year. Every child receives a book. Every child gives their parent/s a gift they have made. Every year we have a different type of entertainment. This year it was a Koori dance group, last year we had African drummers.
How would adding Santa to this mix be necessary? I value the participation of all families over and above the presence of a guy in a ridiculously hot red suit scaring the kids.
Ye gods. But we aren’t celebrating Yuletide; we are celebrating Christmas; Christ’s Mass, don’tcha know. It’s a celebration of a holiday; a holy day, don’tcha know. The big fat guy is Santa Claus; Saint Nicholas, don’tcha know. You may treat Christmas as secular, as do I. But it is in fact a religious holiday.
I see no reason why Muslims and Jews shouldn’t celebrate the holiday, if they want to. I also see no reason why they should be required to participate in Christmas celebrations.
What do you mean “it”? We’re talking about 2 separate holidays. Decorated fir trees, gift giving, wreaths, red-and-green, mistletoe, caroling, outdoor lights, these things have nothing to do with Christianity, and changing the name changes nothing. The fact that some people choose to include a Christ Mass during the Yuletide season doesn’t mean we should throw out the bathwater with the baby Jesus. :thighslap:
As for Santa Claus, he’s a combination of the Norse god Odin (or was it Thor) who arrived at Yuletide on a flying sleigh to deliver presents, and Nicholas, who would sneak in at night to leave gifts (but not at Christmas). So what if he was canonized by the Catholic church? Protestants don’t recognize saints, for starters, and kids think “Santa” is his first name. The modern popular image of Santa Claus is a rather recent invention. When was the last time you heard Santa–on TV, at a Mall or anywhere else–mention Jesus?
Of course no one should be required to do anything fun, but no one should be required not to, which is what these parents are doing to their kids based on mistaken assumptions. Besides, I don’t see how the were presence at a party of a guy in a costume amounts to “requiring” anything of the partygoers.
We need to continue the process of gently assuring Jews and Muslims that these activities and images are not inherently religious and are OK for their kids to be exposed to. It is sadly ironic that a season designed to bring people together has to be attacked in the name of divisiveness.
Um, sqweels, did it ever occur to you that meanings of rituals change?
John the Baptist baptized Jews in the early years of the Common Era. Does that mean that the Southern Baptists are a Jewish sect?
Similarly, the Odin once left gifts for kiddies doesn’t mean that those who believe in Santa Claus are Norsemen. It means that the meaning of the ritual changed - to a Xian one.
I’m not sure that Muslims and Jews and any other religions have too much of a problem with Santa Claus * per se *, as quoted in the Article linked to in my original post :
However, the fact remains that Santa Claus does relate to a specific religous holiday, and it isn’t necessary for him to make appearances at kindergartens or schools - he can be a pretty intimidating figure for kids, and can also lead to problems with children who do not celebrate Christmas in their homes.
I would bristle slightly and say that Yuletide is a religious holiday for some, myself included. Just because its not Christian doesn’t mean it’s not religious.:mad:
I know little about the Aussie psyche in general, but what i’ve garnered from beer comercials and the Croc Hunter, they concern themselves with loosing a lot of their disposable income on cheap plastic crap at about the same rate as Americans do…Maybe it was out of a concern over the dulling ffect of blatant comercialism on the absorbant minds of these little multi-cultural babes.
Meanwhile i'll ave me a little walk about down to the Wally-Mart and buy me a new floppy at!
Uh, that’s pretty much my point. The meanings of the rituals are changing away from Christian ones. The fact that they weren’t Christian to begin with reinforces the point.
Besides, can anyone explain what the specific religious message of Santa Claus ever was? I can explain the specific message behind “one nation under God” or a manger scene. Merely “relating to” or “associated with” a “religious holiday” isn’t good enough. Everything in the entire Universe “relates” to everything else.
Poorly phrased on my part, JustPlainBryan, my apologies.
But you actually help prove my point. sqweels position appears to be that the traditions in question are secular because they did not originate in Christianity. It is just as proper to say that the traditions are religious because they first developed from a religion other than Christianity - and one which you and others still adhere to.
Though my overall point is that they have also been co-opted by Christianity; though the Yuletide log was missing (no fireplace), my old RCC church had a Christmas tree, wreaths, and a statute of Santa (pointing at the chreche) on and around Christmas.
I’m not entirely sure where on I stand in this debate. I would have to side in favor of not having Santa Claus in situations where not everyone shares the same faith, but at the same time it seems like denying a happy Christmas to the kids that do want Santa there.
Maybe the solution is to just celebrate all the traditions at once in one great holiday we call…Festivus!
I say ask the kindergarteners if they want Santa. Grownups always think they know what is best, but they never consider what the kids will think. Let them have Santa if they want him, but don’t push Christmas. It seems Santa has become a symbol of winter and commercialism and has nothing to do with religion.
In the US, Christmas IS secular and commercial. As a recent convert to Islam, I am trying to preserve that which is good of my milk culture. I celebrate the holiday as an excuse for all of the nice extended family stuff while avoiding as much of the predatory commercialism as possible.
Many of my brethen avoid anything that even vaguely resembles a holiday from outside Islam, even jettisonning cultural festivals. They are mostly native born, immigrant muslims or converts from masjids strongly influenced by fundamentalist Saudi oil money. Many are just being careful.
As to the OP, I have no problem with a daycare opting out of the while fat-hairball-in-red-flannel schtick. The malcontents who have a problem with it need to adress their energy to larger problems in society. Most of the basic rituals are cultural accretions that have little or nothing to do with Jesus or his message.
I was a Pagan in my former life. Don’t even ask what the Morse actually used for garlands.
